How invisible is invisible?

I am talking about "Veil of Invisibility" (PeIm20).
It says (ArM5) "completely undetectable to normal sight, regardless of what he does, still casts a shadow"


  • Can he still be heard?
  • How does a dog react?
  • Can the Gift be felt in the room?
  • Can she be seen with IR-Vision (InIg20)?
  • what happens if it rains?
  • Does he bleed?

Its invisible, not undetectable.

  • Can he still be heard? Of course.

  • How does a dog react? It can hear him and smell him, since dogs doesnt use sight as primary sense, it will probably react fairly normally, maybe a bit extra skittish or aggressive due to not being able to see the person, like a human seeing someone chopping wood but the sound is just gone, disconcerting to say the least.

  • Can the Gift be felt in the room? I would say it can, but as the feeling of "badness" about the gift only truly affects interaction with a gifted, so it wont be obvious even if its sensed at all. In short it CAN be felt, but only slightly and most probably wont notice.

  • Can she be seen with IR-Vision (InIg20)? Yes.

  • what happens if it rains? If it rains alot, there will be a personshaped space in the rain.

  • Does he bleed? Why wouldnt he? If you mean is his blood visible, then off course not.

Agreed with WOLF, except for thew bood part. I would say that once the blood falls, it can be seen. Not while touching his body, but yopu can seer the blood spots on the ground if you harmed him/her.



Oh yes, of course... As long as its "part of the person" one way or another, its invisible...

I agree & would think this would functionally up the level of how strong the gift is for the reaction of the dog. That is if the invisible person has the gentle gift the dog would react as if the person had normal gift, if they have normal gift, the dog would react as if it was the blantant gift.

I'd think this would apply to any animal that uses a sense other than sight as the primary sense. So for example a hawk, a very sight oriented creature, the invisiblity would be far more effective. So are horses primarily sight or sent oriented?


To further the discussion on "Veil of Invisibility" (PeIm20).

I designed a giant class monster to ravage some hamlets with the singular lesser power of this spell. My question is that as it is invis a magi could not cast Eye or Sight range spells at it. Range - Voice - seems viable but in my mind lacks a specified direction.

i.e. A Magi casts Pilum of Fire CrIg 15 - Range Voice. This would hit the invis monster, intuitively? I'm just trying to rationalize it. According to the rules it would work.

Re: Dramatic description: Would the Pilum direct itself automatically, like a heat seeking missile, at the invisible target having linked with the beasts capacity to hear? How else would the Pilum find its target?

N.B. A very useful table on the effects of invis: HoH - Societates 5th Ed p34

No. It would hit where the caster thinks the target is and tries to hit.

Since Pilum of Fire isn't an aimed spell, and automatically strikes its target, how would you adjudicate "tries to hit"?

Matt Ryan

Indeed. I thought with non-aimed spells, "Can't Sense" means "Can't Cast", as if the spell could not be 'grounded' to a target and thus cast.

That's my take on it as well. If the caster can sense the target (not necessarily "see" but somehow sense) then he can fry it, in this case. I think the challenge is trying to sense the invisible magus, not hitting it with a non-aimed spell.

Since invisibility is a relatively low level spell, I make it fairly easy to foil. I'd ask for a Perception + Awareness (listening) + stress die vs. variable Ease Factor depending on the surroundings to determine the success of the caster sensing the target.

Of course, that wouldn't work against a magus with invisibility and another Perdo Imaginem spell that cancels the sound he makes when moving, which has come up in some of my games.

Matt Ryan

Actually, Scent is almost as important as sight and sound because scent is the primary tracking means as much as footprints and broken branches.

Barring a really unkempt magus or an unfortunate Twilight scar, I wonder how refined one's sense of smell has to be to smell a person enough to zap them on fire.

Well, considering that a clean-freak bathed once a week, I would say the question is not how refined a sense of smell you need. The question should be are you indoors or outside?

Me myself, I have a horrid sense of smell. Too many cats, totally fouled my senses. However, if someone walks past me at a close enough of a range, I can usually sense them and tell a few details from the scent (such as male or female, carnivore or vegitarian, if they eat spicy foods, etceteras).

SO, the smart wizard who cast invisibility also has "Stink of Twenty Corpses" or some imaginem variant that can bypass Parma to keep their personal stink a 'stealth stink'. Or Perdo Imaginem, I guess... but that's less fun.

Perdo Imagonem Scent is your friend and mine. It allows groups of people to get along much better and should be permanent enchantment on the privy.


If the caster casts the spell at point A and the "invisible" person really IS at point A then its a hit. If he THINKS the person is at point B when casting, the spell doesnt hit the invisible person at point A.

Yes, if the magi can sense the invisible person somehow, and can sense where that person is CORRECTLY, its a hit.

"I shoot magic missle at the Darkness."

sorry ... I had to.

This is true. Creo spells work differently, as the target is the thing created. You can "hit" any designtated point within range.

I think we're talking aimed/unaimed (autohit). I not sure the Creo nuance applies.

I'm not buying the "If you think target is at X, but can't see them, your guess lets you hit them", at least accordingt to the rules and the corollaries of the Limit of Arcane Connections.