I just picked up Hedge magic !

Games Discussion Ars Magica
81

Well after further reading of the book I have to give a thumbs up to John Post's comments. He is right.

I think I was searching for something that is just not what the book is about. Subconsciusly I expected this to be a "pre-OoH magic" book. A book about the traditions that the Founders derived from. This is not such a book. Mercere was not a nautral magician, and Flambeau and Guernicus were not elementalists as I fist assumed, :slight_smile: They were something else. Probably related, but something else none the less. As such my firs t impression of the book was positive (I liked most of what I read) but did not fit well with my expectations. That is a problem of mine, not of the book itself.

Some of the material here can be used in a pre-OoH campaign, since the power level of the magi there is probably more in line with what you would find in smaller and less coordinated traditions but they will not be the bulldozers that a group of eager magi can be if they want. They can be powerful, but less all-conquering that the current members of the Order.

So I am changing my point of view here :slight_smile: Once I reread the book and finish the 2 chapters I have left I will remake my review. :slight_smile: I am happy to have changed my point of view since now I am more comfortable reading the book.

Cheers,

Xavi

PD: reading the saxon chronicles of Bernard Cornwell is a BAD THING for you if you were NOT planning to build a 800-900 saga and you just read the vitkir andf gruagachan chapters....

82

Except the fact that 5th Ed. External Soul still gives 1 Warping pt./year, and therefore a maximum earthily lifespan. Also differently from Twilight 10 Hermetic mages, who can linger indefinitely if they avoid entering Wizard's Twilight, Transformation 10 Gruagach automatically change into trolls.

As explained above, automatic accumulation of Warping points with External Soul cannot be avoided (in my knowledge there is no way to avoid Warping from being under a constant magical effect).

The only way to have a gruagach character still around after 4-5 centuries is for him to achieve immortality as a sapient supernatural creature. This can be done if a) Brude mastered one of the known Immortality methods: a gruagach variant of the Great Elixir, Faerie Becoming, or less likely Living Ghost or Daimon apotheosis b) Brude developed a Virtue that let him remain sapient and in full control of oneself even after final Transformation in a troll. The Mystery of the Inner Heartbeast shows that it is possible.

83

Yes. Absolutely. It's just like being there.

IMO, this varies by nightwalking group. In some all your kit changes to phantastic and you ride the ghost of your horses and wear the ghost of your own armor and so on. In some you are n ude and get kitted out at a staging area by kit bought by your captain.

Again it may vary by group, but basically no: if you are solid you are visible. You can, however, just flick to invisible when someone is watching, for many tasks.

Varies by group, but generally solid.

Sorry for the delay in reply.

84

Finally I have taken the Hedge magic Book, and I must say taht is more clear than in the 4th Edition. And clearly the Order of Hermes have advantages than any of the others magical groups. But those group have advanages unics dificult for the magi.
I'll use the guides of the groups for Castillian, Leones, Basc and Catalonian groups. I'll write here, for don't separate for this theme.

85

As a long time hedgie fan and one with an interest in Iberian Sagas, I'd love to see this.

Would you be interested in writing your ideas up for the Sub Rosa fanzine?
(I have an Iberian covenant write-up hopefully appearing in SR#5)

Regards,

Lachie

86

Ok, i send you my spanish traditions first. And after here ok?
I'll write about Hedge traitions versions than I wrote in the Ex Myscellaneas sections. The meigas and the sorginak.
See ya, Lachi Marckman.

87

Isn't there a problem with the last page (Eirik Svennson) : for the spell "i, eirik svennson, strenghten the sword of my ancestors" : casting total +22 BUT:
sta 2 and O 9+2.
With a focus : (9+2) x2 +2 = 22+2 = +24...

88

I don't think so, If you go into the Errata page for ArM5 (Noble's Parma on the printing) it says that the Puissant bonuses applies to ability totals now, not scores. Therefore: O 9x2 = 18, +2 Stamina = 20, +2 Puisssance =22.

At least that's the way I've always used it...

EDIT: Hmmmm looks like I had it backward.... :blush: The Puissant (Ability) Errata is that it now works on Scores, not totals. It's probably irrelevant though since I don't think your Puissant bonus counts as part of your score in an ability anyway...

89

Hu?
9+2 is the score, so your score is 11, and a focus in rune double the score, so 22.

My point was merely on the rune rules (and foci).

90

I think you're right, his casting total before rolling should be +24.

91

Ok so i'm correctly understanding the mecanism...

Cool.

Rune magic is quite hard, not like all the other hedge mages ^^

92

Is it? I think of it as basically just like Hermetic magic except that there's only one Art in the total. Or do you mean that it's hard to do?

93

Well:
the three methods are quite difficult to understand.

There is, by example, no spell using method 3 .
It's only this morning i understood how to do it, and that they don't need an effect, but need a level for perhaps Magic Resistance.

Plus, the effects are quite described in a box, and so are the guideline, but all that is little and tiny : i think that it was the end of the book and no much pages avaible.
The guidelines are quite simple.

But.. the worst: the "target" runes... argh : there is no "box"/"table"/"guideline" and i need to check rune after rune to see which is the target, when i design a method 2 or 3.

And after all that: the focus...

The minor is quite simple but too weak, so i used for npc the major... quite hard to understand that it covers ALL form in the focus or using a target in the focus (for spells II and III) (or all spell method I)

And... "no duration" table: it was quite hard to understand that rune is the duration and so it depends on the rune "casting" ("carving" rather).

And... last but not least: my interrogation about "WHERE" the rune must be... quite unsolved.

So i give this example: (Phenix Ignem players: not read!)

I have a great master of the Order of Odin (215+ years etc etc). He has a method III spell linking to all his "soldiers" (its a M spell level 20 (for bypassing 20 MR if needed)) (and has traced runes in a cave for each soldier... thousand runes! (each soldier muse be bold, and the hair are carved into the rune for each soldier)).

Can this great master use these arcane connection - runes to carve method 2 rune poem in this cave (basically : recovery roll and "heal all wounds") linked to the rune 3 so that if, in the battle that occurs 100 km away, a soldier is (type a wound state here), the soldier is immediatly and permanently healed (if the rune is not destroyed - which cannot be because only the "master" know where it is and it's quite... protected by an ancient dragon (blablabla aventure details).
Or, otherly said: can he have "a secret cave" giving immortality to his soldiers with this combination (method 3 + method 2)?

I think he can (i have read 300times the methods to understand...) but i'm unsure.

And if he can... the order is at war with a very powerful enemy...

94

That's correct. If my memory serves, Method III runecasting is not very useful, since it just creates a lasting Arcane Connection to the caster.

Rune magic is supposed to be very versatile, it's essentially 24 overlapping Forms.

Hmm. I'm not sure I follow your complaint. Method I has one rune, which describes the effect. Method II has two runes, the first describing the effect, the second describing the target. You use Method II when you want to affect something other than the thing on which the rune is inscribed. Then it's simply whatever rune best matches the target, usually Mannaz. I don't think you use a target with Method III.

ETA: Oh wait, I recall that you do use a target, and only a target since there isn't any custom effect.

Minor is pretty weak, yeah, but it's supposed to be for specialists.

It's like Ring Duration. It lasts as long as the rune does.

Anywhere. It should be part of the affected individual for Method I (on it or carried by it), or either nearby or with an Arcane Connection for Method II.

I don't think the Method III runes are necessary in your example. He could just have a bunch of ACs, and cast healing spells through them quite easily, assuming his runes scores are high enough. He'll probably have to re-cast the rune spell fairly often, since it won't do anything for wounds gotten after each casting. Note too that all the soldiers become Arcane Connections back to the caster for as long as the healing runes last, though the magi probably don't know that.

95

Well that is like sun in the rain. I think i understand all a little better...

BUt, i think this is the kind of stuff i need to try a long time before understanding all the flavour and maximization i can do!

96

Serf's Parma, but I thought the goal of Method III runecasting is to create an Arcane Connection to any target. The AC could then be used to target a Method II runecast spell. Is this right? And I remember being confused, in Method III runecasting, about whether the runes are supposed to be inscribed on the target or on the soon-to-be AC to the target. (The latter makes more sense, but I seem to recall the wording being contradictory.)

97

I'll check what wording was published when I get home, but I remember the Method III inscriptions as reading something like "Eirik carved the runes on this house," (Ng) as opposed to "Eirik carves the healing runes" (B) or "Eirik calls burning pain for these poor beasts" (K/U) The Method III runes don't produce an effect, they just set up the Arcane Connection and magical conduit that happens whenever a rune spell is cast on an object.

98

Okay, I've looked at the text again. :slight_smile:

You're right, I think it's plain that while the Method III rune spell creates an Arcane Connection to the vitki, it is also an Arcane Connection from him to it. The runes are inscribed on the object that the vitki will be connected to, or else on an another object that is an Arcane Connection to the target, and the connection lasts as long as the rune remains intact.

99

Thank you for checking on these rules. I think I get it now ... "Eirik carves the runes upon this tree" at a time when his dog Slappy is within ten paces of the tree, and thereafter Eirik can use the tree as an Arcane Connection to Slappy no matter where the dog is. Or, Eirik sneaks off with Count Rugen's six-fingered glove (an Arcane Connection to Rugen), "Eirik carves the runes upon this tree" while holding the glove, and then puts the glove back before Rugen notices it; now the tree is an Arcane Connection to Rugen. Does this seem right?

100

Almost. I think the caster receives an Arcane Connection to Slappy, as well as the tree. The Rugen example doesn't work, though.

Let's imagine we're doing a Method II rune spell instead, like a spell to give the target a bonus to healing rolls. That's B for the effect rune. We want to affect all domesticated animals within about ten paces of a tree, so we'll probably use E for the target rune. The runes are inscribed on the tree. As long as the animals are near the runes, they will get the healing bonus. The tree is not affected, except that the runes carved into it are an Arcane Connection to the caster. Good?

Now let's imagine we want to affect a specific animal with the Method II rune spell. Everything else is the same, except that we just want to affect Slappy. We take an Arcane Connection to Slappy (some fur?) and incorporate it into the runes on the tree (perhaps painting over it to keep it stuck to the surface). Now it will continue to give Slappy a healing bonus no matter where Slappy goes, as long as the runes remain intact. The runes are still an Arcane Connection to the caster, and the fur is still an Arcane Connection to Slappy. The caster is not an Arcane Connection to Slappy.

So, let's do the same thing with a Method III rune spell. No effect rune, the target rune is still E, and Slappy is present when you cast it, or else you have an Arcane Connection to Slappy that you incorporate into the runes. Now you have an Arcane Connection to Slappy wherever you go, through the mystical conduit of the rune magic. Slappy is not an Arcane Connection to you, though. The runes are still an Arcane Connection to both you and Slappy.

To affect Count Rugen using either Method II or Method III, we need to incorporate an Arcane Connection into the runes. We have his glove, but unless we secretly draw the runes on the glove, we can't give it back to him once it's been integrated into the spell. If Rugen himself was within a few paces of the runes when you cast them, you could create an Arcane Connection to him, and of course you could make an Arcane Connection to the gloves and then give them back.