In which we secure land for the Covenant

Summarize, I suppose. Paphos has been busy these last few days. Same thing as the above post, looking for someone with a good reputation among "graduates", will sponsor with a small amount of cash. End goal twofold: to raise my reputation with the church, and to gain access to recruits.

They have several children between the ages of 8 and 12 who would be ready to start a professional apprenticeship.

A couple of weeks later a man shows up at the caravan who states he represents Abdul-Azim-Faquesh, and is here to discuss your proposal for a town charter.

We will wait to offer jobs until Paphos gets to know the prospects, consider this accomplished at the point - he is now a patron to the orphanage, with possible recruiting in a later season.

Just to clarify - we were inquiring about purchasing land, is chartering a town a counter-offer, or is purchasing still on the table?

The man responds "Purchase land? As if it were wheat, or linen? Land is granted, by kings, not bought and sold. We were told you wanted to use the land, and to build some form of community, so I was sent to discuss a town charter. Once the town is established, townsfolk may be allowed to own land, if that is how we establish the charter."

"Hmmm, a town charter?" He blinks slowly, considering. "I freely confess, I never considered a town charter, our needs are more modest - to establish a hospital, more like a single manor house with a few outbuildings, organized more like a small university or monastic community. However, I could see certain advantages to be incorporated as a town, assuming all concerned were aware from the beginning that it will be a most unusual town.

Perhaps David could be our negotiator, and the rest can suggest ideas?

Things we want:
rights to land centered on the aura, plus a double bowshot in each direction for outbuildings/growth/agriculture
build a central manor (the hospital, plus outbuildings)
population of about a dozen men of good standing or equivalent, their families and households (to include servants/grogs, etc), with right to renegotiate for more
permission to excavate/explore the hilltop
right of way without tolls to Mdina
water rights/permission to dig wells
judicial rights over inhabitants
Permission to form town council which will have rights of internal governance
Protection from our Feudal lord in time of war (a formality given the current political climate, and can be waived as a negotiating tactic)
Rights to privacy in personal homes/personal areas of common buildings such as the hospital

Things we can offer:
disparage the value of the land - we are not offering much because of the current nonexistent value.
Free medical care for any of the lords vassals who come to the hospital
nominal and minor tax, perhaps based on number our households of men of good standing?
Really, the Lord should be paying us to establish a household, because of the eventual improvement to the are we represent, perhaps that tax should be waived for a number of years?
eventual improvements to the Lord's lands other than areas under our control, due to our Aristotlean science that can improve yields (make an item with CrHe, occasionally use)
Improve water access to the rest of the lord's lands (ReAq item or Me/PeTe to help with deep wells)
We will build a road from the town to Mdina, thereby improving the value of all adjacent lands/products

What am I missing, guys?

OOC Here are some thoughts and additions:

[tab][/tab] The meat of the matter. I would suggest avoiding the "aura" word, but insist on that part of land that has the ruins/rocks etc. Say we need those as a base for our stone buildings...

[tab][/tab] Also a tower and a workshop?

[tab][/tab] Lets make it clear we aren't asking for the Lord to provide those. He might take it the wrong way.

[tab][/tab] Also rights to quarry limestone. I think we have quite a few people that are interested in masonry. These and their products can give the lord a healthy tax income.

[tab][/tab] How about instead, rights to build a reservoir for rain? It sounds innocent enough, and people expect a small enclosure to catch runoff. However we could build a very large one and just fill it up (Clouds of Rain and Thunder, p126 core, comes to mind :wink: )

[tab][/tab] Low justice? I think he will want to keep high and canon.

[tab][/tab] That would require our fealty and we cant do that under the Code :S
[tab][/tab] Instead we should ask for the right to bear arms to protect us from pirates, though he would want to control the amount of people under arms we are allowed

-[tab][/tab]Fortifications. This will definitely stuck in his throat. But they are necessary to protect us from raids.
-[tab][/tab] Option for a small harbor or berth, fully taxable.

[tab][/tab]We should avoid direct use of magic for our dealings, as the Code is quite strict about that. However, using magic instead of labor should be fine; thus: if instead of wells we make a cistern, the run-off can make a stream which anyone could use. Road should be fine and easy to make. Making a quarry and a workshop for stone products will definitely interest him, both as a source of taxes and a new economic spot. Access to mundane books and knowledge, plus a small schola?

Hakima would both be trying to avoid official looking people, and does not actually speak Italian which present two problems for her adding her ideas. But if she does somehow get involved she'll point out that as the apothecary she'll likely grow some medicinal plants so limited rights to farm would be nice. She would also support the right to set up labs for practice of Natural Philosophy, in particular alchemy, but labs for production of medicine would be in keeping with the idea of a hospital.

Tarxian is not ocean adjacent, which means he could not provide for water access and protection from pirates is pretty thin as a reason for a right to bear arms.

They are not planning to limit the number of people in the town, but they do want a census of townsfolk, who would be taxed (townsfolk have the rights outlined in the charter).

Theman seems willing to give more than a double bowshot in land "given it's general quality plus you will want room to expand your town"

rights to privacy and the like are something he considers town business, except when it comes to high crimes. This include the right of the town to provide for it's own defense and enforcement in terms of military.

under the current treaty he cannot give you a writ of crenulation, but he can allow for town walls. Excavations of any sort- wells, cisterns, foundations or excavations, are again up to the town governance, provided the defenses of the town do not exceed what is granted in the treaty. A tower and town wall will probably be pushing things. Significantly.

As for what the lord wants, he wants 5 silver pennies a year per citizen and 10% of any major source of revenue for the town. The city will be able to set its own tax rates for trade.

some parts of this re negotiable, if anyone wishes to negotiate between these points, or of course if anything needs clarification...

Tarxien if about a mile away from two separate areas of the modern day Valetta waterfront (not sure what it's called in 1220), does the Lord have any holdings in that area he would be willing to grant access too, even if it's not directly congruent with the "town" property?

I want to nail down the idea of taxes - does the town have the right to declare who is a citizen for taxable purposes? For example, I would see citizens as including (in our terms) the magi, companions who either sit on the council or run their own business, and those grogs that qualify as guild master status, plus their apprentices. Servants and household employees would not neccessarily be citizens . This is, I believe a departure from common town charters, but we are operating more as an oligarchy than a typical town, so citizenship is not needed in this case.

Regarding income sources, this includes anything sold for profit, but does not include good produced/used on site such as building materials and home use agriculture, but if they are sold, they would be taxed?

Lastly, I suppose more land is better than less, but we'd be displacing an awful lot of sheperds, unless they'd fall under town management as well? Mutton is better than nothing to eat, I suppose!

You may designate who is or is not a townsman, but those who are not townsmen will not be able to retain the rights of townsmen, including the right to own property in town, right to contribute towards defense (unless an underling of a townsman, who must act as a commanding officer), and they want to specify that at minimum 1 in 3 permanent inhabitants will be considered a townsperson.
They also would like a guarantee that muslims within the town (whether townsfolk or not) will not suffer diminished rights as a result of their religion, and the town will forbid the holding of muslims as slaves. As for harbors he does have one harbor town currently chartered, and will grant access each way without toll, and if the town's council is willing extend shared townsfolk's rights to the inhabitants of each town (which means you would grant the same rights and privileges to their townsfolk as to your own, and they would reciprocate)

Tomas looks at the others. "It seems to me that something along these lines is quite sensible for us. Much more so than fighting with folks who don't want us. We will eventually want to explore the other locations, but we can negotiate separately. And if we can have good relations with a small port, this should work really well. And the requirement to treat the Muslim's equally should actually help with other religious issues later, and is one I believe we all can live with."

"Given that a significant portion of our covenant is at least nominally Muslim, I agree. We are at the threshold of strife, religious racial and cultural that often flares into open warfare. This covenant we found shall be a haven from that and a place where the soul can heal as well as the body. Paphos is a perfect example himself, Greek ancestry, raised in a Saracen village, and then travelling the world with magic steeped pagans. I think I can agree to these terms.

Tartessos has stayed on the perimeter of the discussion so far, given that he was gone for years and back mere hours. "I will abstain from formally voting until I have my feet back and understand the local issues better. However, I can say I have no objections to this so far. I do have one important questions, however; who is our new lord and where specifically is his place of power?

Abdul-Azim-Faquesh, he owns the land that Tarxian sits on, his actual center of power is on Gavdos island.

Hmm, this post changed. Confirm Gavdos in the Theban Tribunal, not Sharqi island, near Tunisia, outside the Order?

David looks around. "Before we finalize this, let's realize that there are some complications here. Good Verditus, for example, your laboratory will be a problem. You can either leave it outside the Aura, denying you a valuable resource. Or you can have it inside the aura, in which case your forge folks will likely become warped, which may attract unwanted attention. I will need quarters outside of the aura for similar reasons."

"I had not thought of that, and it is a very good point. I think the solution will be to carefully build my lab straddling the aura boundary. If I am careful in my build, I can set up ancilliary stations for use by forge companions. This will not solve the problem entirely, but should take care of most of the issues. Likewise I can easily see the covenant itself straddling the boundary, with the common areas and living quarters outside and most of the labs inside.

RE:Gavdos : If there were a covenant there it would be Theban, but the island is currently under Saracen control, and has no covenants that are known.

Antonius finally enters the tent, after having been away for some days while in prison in Mdina. He will disclose this information when the representative of the Al-Faquesh family is gone.

"Sodales, it is good to be among you again." He scan the tent rapidly, "There are a lot of new faces here, and it will be pleasant to meet you, I am sure."

His red eyes meets Maffeo's, and he says:

"Thank you for having pleaded for me in that courtroom, I appreciate the gesture."

"As I was unable to tell you what came out of the the expedition to Hagar Quim, as... " he says while repressing a laugh" I was behing bars. The expeditian was fruitful and I think it is a site worthy of establishing a covenant on. The aura is mightily powerful and is aligned with the art of Intellego, which means that every effort to research intellego spells would be way easier by much. The aura's spower, centered on the temple ruins, decrease in power, and should be adequate to prevent warping of our servants if they only work there. We could be able to monetize that aura by renting laboratories to magi of the order; I can think of a few that would like one or more season in such an aura."

"There is also a really large cave system nearby. No, a gigantic cave system...I think there are exits located elsewhere on the island; it might be a way to to travel around the island undetected. There is a regio, with a possible source of vis inside one of the larger cave."

"This land is however owned by the count, as we learned. We might be able to come to an agreement with directly with the count too. I would not discount this possibility without at least trying. Let us send a messenger to Carlo, Henri's warden. He will surely be able to arrange a meeting with the count under short notice, especially if we discuss a possible source of income for his liege."

"And for one, do not trust the Al-Faquesh, for they appear to be opportunists. That enabled them to keep their land, but it raise the question to what they could do to an eventual deal, if it isnt in their interest anymore at some point. I am not sure that sending this kind of money to a foreign noble without any kind of oversight from us would be wise on our part."