Hi,
I'm currently working on this mystery cult.
At the start it was a group of infernalists not related to the magi of the order. Their favored virtues are: chthonic magic, incantation, diablerie (because false power are powerful and fun), consumption (because aging slowly is very interesting).
- Note: With the time elapse since the creation, I feel like chthonic magic was not the most useful in the tradition and could have been a nice addition by false power later, and ceremony would have been more efficient (here i had to have the familiar teach it and would have had to include it in the script if it was not able to teach it. So one may say chthonic magic allowed to bind the demonic familiar).
But it's too late to rewrite the character from that part before apprenticeship so let's assume my own mistake. (I say this because while doing the characters, I found that ceremony is the ultimate tool to obtain power in infernal circles, and hermetic magic is quite good at ensuring others are (magically if not naturally) loyal or compelled to do what you say, even, and especially infernal disciples hoping to get some meager bonus from you in exchange for some time of their life + the very good life in a covenant and the power from having your stats raised "because why do individual when the ceremony has enough total to do group +1 size for everyone... just bring more victims by raiding ships on the sea" .
Then the character was opened as an Hermetic magus and after some times, decided to fork this tradition to an Hermetic integrated one.
So he added steps (those are auto-translated from french sorry if not correct english). Note: most of those scripts are used by NPC at the moment so the "in game" never happens; to avoid NPC having the easy life I created some system (a bit similar to the solo adventure thing I read recently but with more randomness and danger and rewards) where they "live adventures" so sometimes I explain in the script what type of adventure they must succeed at to consider the quest or task achieved.
To be very clear: the NPCs are obviously not "played" since they are NPC. But I create them either as "person who become an apprentice" or "apprentice gauntleted" and start doing complex creation afterward, simulating every season one by one, not using the 30xp per year rule. For apprenticeship it's either the same (one season per season if the master is a real NPC) or the package of xp from rules (240) if the NPC is just a name and house.
After gauntlet, every season is simulated, using a simulated covenant resources (with build points I felt adequate for the covenant, with all the magi sharing their expenses or gains if the covenant is of the cooperative mind).
All that to say that in this process "at creation" refers for me only to the time I use packaged XP per year/apprenticeship. From the moment I go season after season, it's "in play" even if NPC.
So step 0 is normal teaching of the 4 virtues. I'm not sure honestly if "favored abilities" require the gift or not. The teaching of supernatural abilities require the gift, but mysteries (and thus traditions) are also open to not gifted.
For this character and his own fork of the mystery, it's not a problem (they have the gift) but for the original tradition (where they have not always the gift) it may have been, but that's more of a backstory question/issue.
Edit: I found my answer while searching the forum in Favored Abilities and the Ungifted ; apparently having an infernal warping point count as being able to learn (infernal) supernatural abilities.
useless part because I forgot Demonic familiar is a flaw, not a virtue...
Demonic familiar [minor virtue, target was 18 for him as self initiation but is 15 for others] The initiate must sacrifice their current familiar (+6, +3 sympathy) and spend one season clearing their living space of any signs related in any way to the applicable monotheistic faith (+1 time lost)
Here I have a question: i was not sure if in play I had to take "demonic familiar" to bond one. Maybe it's unrequired and I can remove that virtue; I feel like maybe "demonic familiar" is at creation required to say "has a demonic familiar" but in play a magus with chthonic magic can bond a demon if they have an agreement (or if the demon is coerced which is more probable)). If you have any advice on this, I'll take it because there is no reason to keep an useless step.
- Ceremony (major, would have been for 30 for him, 21 for others) : The initiate must murder an innocent human (quest +3, or an infiltration adventure with at least 1 success), and receives the “age quickly” flaw (major ordeal +9) (sympathy +1)
Age quickly was judged thematic because it makes the learner (gifted or not since there is an ordeal it's okay) "die faster" which requires to provide a solution for it by the master infernalist. It may be easy (transfer aging malus to trees is the most useful version), but "easy" is harder than "nothing to manage".
Besides in this script it makes the "initiates" of steps 2 more dependent on the master infernalist. "You are powerful... but without me you are nothing and will soon be dead." which is a way of doing thing I find very appropriate for a master infernalist creating its own cult. (Very Sith like too.)
- Summoning (major 30 or 21, -9): The initiate must find a spirit within one season (time penalty +1, requires a simple roll of [realm] lore + Per on a 9+ [requires a minimum score of 1]); if they succeed in imprisoning it or convincing it to serve them for at least 1 year, they gain a bonus (a hellish adventure with 2 out of 3 successes yielding no reward but demonic-style bargaining {even if the spirit isn’t a demon, the goal is to simulate negotiation}) (sympathy +3). In addition, the mystagogue assists the initiate (mystagogue’s aid +3)
I'm not quite sure about this step. I was going for that route but feel like Summoning is not really "required" for the mystery so I'm quite undecided. If I finish to not use it, I'll use the script for spell binding, later. Indeed, if I keep ablating, summoning is useful as hell. But if I go in any "transfer soul" route (see later) summoning is not very interesting/thematic.
Your advice is very welcome about the script anyway since I'd keep it for spell binding in any case.
- Ablating but when writing the script I had an idea that I want to discuss before (major, 30 or 21 for others, -6)
The initiate must find a potential apprentice with the Gift who has a physical deformity (blind, etc.) and secure their eternal loyalty by saving them from their condition using Incantation/Consumption (base 25, touch), alone (quest +3 or as part of a social adventure with 2 successes out of 3 challenges, and a Leadership + PRS roll vs. 21 -3 if the victim and/or sacrifice is an enemy of the apprentice, +3 if the victim and/or sacrifice is a relative of the apprentice, +9 if the potential apprentice knows that the deformity is caused by the initiate (if applicable), plus the “-loyal”/“+disloyal” personality modifier).
The consumption power must be successfully performed alone, without assistance (no ceremony) : an additional third party (victim) is required, and a sacrifice or the use of vis is possible (if the victim/sacrifice is
- a) an enemy of the initiate, sympathy +1;
- b) an enemy of the potential apprentice, sympathy +2;
- c) a close relative (parent/child/spouse) of the apprentice, sympathy +3).
If the potential apprentice received the physical deformity directly from the initiate, +2 sympathy bonus.
To conceal his responsibility from his victim: Guile + stress roll VS 21 -1 per season that has passed since the deformity existed, +“paranoid”/“confident” personality modifier.
He must take on the apprentice and train him for as long as he wishes. Then, he must betray him and sacrifice him during a ritual in which he uses him as a victim to improve himself (via Incantation/Consumption), either by increasing his attributes or by transferring decay. (+6 one-time sacrifice value; +1 sympathy bonus per training season)
The maximum accumulated sympathy bonus cannot exceed +5.
After would come spell binding and hermetic empowerment.
The final step would have been external soul but I noticed the guideline in Inc/Con which made the thing useless for the master. It may still happen for the others, but I don't see why the master would initiate it rather than use a forsaken duration spell. External soul and repentance are quite a mixed way of doing things (i'd have to check external soul if it can be kept after repentance, but iirc it doesn't adress the question at all) and at the moment I don't see the difference with guideline of external soul + forsaken duration and repentance: it's either repentance + soul in your body or no repentance in both cases.
While writing the script (which I think convey very well the "ablating" it was envisionned for when I wrote it with the "take what you can, throw the rest" aspect of it), I felt that it could be a very good script for a external soul virtue (which is unnecessary since incantation consumption has base 40 doing exactly that without a virtue) and wanted to end the script with "and transfer your soul to that body, which you are"
But then I checked and saw that no method&power combination has "transfer your soul to someone (to become the new you)".
And suddenly I thought about the legend StarWars universe, in which Palpatine use the Force and the Dark Side to do so and transfer his soul into Anakin Solo (well, I'd not spoil more than that).
And thought: this script makes the initiate (which is self initiated) find an apprentice, make him a willing slave by "saving him" (emphasising even the "I put you in this place without you knowing") which is very a very Sith approach.
And I thought: what would prevent "external soul"/IncCons b40 to effectively transfer the soul to a human being rather than an item: would it require a new guideline (which for Hermetic magic is possible by breakthrough but breakthrough and infernal do not match very much I feel) or a new power (with which guideline(s) except than that one, and what level should that guideline be?) or a new virtue? maybe a "external soul bis" like we have "durable external soul" in the HMRE for those external soul which can be destroyed without killing the magus at the contrary of a normal external soul.
So all in all, what are your thoughts about this?
If a "transfer soul" let's say virtue for the discussion were to exist, what would be transferred?
A. I would say: every ability: when a magus is turned into animal, Bjornaer or not, it keeps all abilities but general, and even lores are kept. I always felt weird that animal do not have folk ken, but a magus would not be able to use folk ken in his animal form.
Here it's not an animal, so I don't see why general abilities (human vs animal) would pose a problem.
B. Then I'd say arts, spells. Obviously.
C. The soul. Which would mean the body has two souls, hence the problem maybe, but what is that problem compared to the "has no soul" from external soul in fact.
But maybe the original soul would be put into an item at the same time? so it remains one soul, because the two souls would open a can of worms for the control of the body/spirit? not sure and not wanting to have it in RP. (Let's keep it "simple".)
D. Mental characteristics sure; physical one? i'd say no. Anyway it's not as if an infernalist is unable to raise those again to 6. It only requires some prava vis, and using that, levels 80 maleficium are a finger distance. And if it's too far, you always have your dispiles who know ceremony and are magically motivated to be loyal to you (Either by an hermetic spell, or by a maleficium) and you keep them as Sith would do to an apprentice: wanting power, but unable to hurt. And since you do everything in your power to create the impossibility of cooperation or not even living in the same place, it will work. (It's just the explnation of the general approach explaining how that mystery and cult works and has succesfuly been so far not a problem I will create for that NPC) .
E. Decrepitude, as for physical characteristics, I'd take those of the body in which it transfers.
F. Warping. I'm quite torn: on the one side, warping is a physical characteristics of things when I read many description for "things" which becomes distorted when they warp, like plants, animal beings, etc.
On the other hand, it can remove every problem for the infernalist magus since warping is the ultimate danger for a magus.
Keep it? starts with the warping of the body? make a mathematical operation like keep half... not sure what should be done.
External soul is a clear distinction of "soul" (age and ability to die, in an item) and spirit/body (in your natural body).
Transfer the soul to another being is thus close but not the same since it would transfer the soul and the spirit/body. In that it's maybe more close to becoming ... after check in HOH MC p93 not at all: becoming is mind/spirit/body not soul/spirit/body (in english mind and spirit are not the same and I never know how to translate that distinction in french since it would be the same word "esprit").
But maybe "transfering soul" to another human is too problematic in the Ars magica setting (personaly seen that external soul exist, and I very much can see an item to be a human corpse, I see not very much issue but a corpse is not a living human with a soul so the argument is still strongly valid and opposable).
Maybe ablating remains the best choice for that script. As ablating it can remain at that step. If it would really be used for some kind of "transfer soul" objective as virtue or new power with that guideline included, I feel like the step should be the last one of the mystery, being the ultimate power since it makes you almost immortal by transferring to another younger body forever
What are your feeling, what would you do? what are you ideas?
As usual, thank you for reading. I know my thoughts were not organized, sorry. I hope it was not a bother to read.
Exar.