Intellego spells and Items

Seeing recently an item with an embedded Intellego, I was reminded of a discussion here on a Glove a grog used to give fatigue to his magus. IIRC, some people objected that the grog was not the caster, the item was.
It occured to me that the same reasonning could be applied to Intellego spells :confused:

Let me try to rephrase:
You've got a wand of PoF. The item cast the spells, shoots a dart of fire, mission accomplished.
You've got a glove with a touch-range PeTe spell. You touch something, the item casts the spell, that's done.
The same thing goes for most spells, and it works nicely enough.

But when you've got, say, a cap with "Peering into the Mortal Mind". The item cast the spell, not you, so it should be it that read thoughts, not you. You'd need a separate CrMe effect to convey them to you.

But, well, this is cumbersome, and not the way most players, myself included, seem to play, so it would probably be an added burden on people, as well as meaning Intellego effects must be Greater Enchanted items.

So, as I'm working for serf's parma, is there something I'm not aware of that says you can simply cast an InIg spell on a wand to give you the power to talk with fire? Is there a logical way to make things happen for intellego spells as if the bearer was the caster? Am I missing something?

Nope, Intelligo items are just a pain.
Which s why you see so few Verditius Intelligo specialists.

Items that grant magical senses are just fine. You'd have to boost the range from personal to touch, and otherwise it all remains as-is.

The other approach is to ask yourself how the information is conveyed to the caster for the spell. If it just materialises in their mind, then yes - you'd need some way to get the information to the caster.

That said, in my saga if you can describe some cool and thematic way that the information is conveyed to the user by the item. I'd personally avoid CrMe, since that requires penetrating the users magic resistance. Instead, I'd look at other forms to convey the information: imaginem for the picture in the mirror, auram for the shapes in clouds, etc.

I would certainly see it as acceptable if you added CrMe as requisites.

And make sure Range is Touch or better.

Yep. There are some creative ways to do LEIs with Intellego. Part of it can be simply accepting that most Intellego spells streach the rules a little.

For example, Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie. Using this as a baseline, you can use superficial effects to attain the result you need. Note that Frosty Breath has no Auram or Corpus or PerdoIgnem requisite: the air effect is just the superficial "flag" that gives effect to Intellego power.

Likewise, a Scrying Pool has no CreoImaginem requisite for displaying what the other pool of water "sees."

So, I think its reasonable for example to have a Helmet that Whispers the Thoughts of Another. InMe, range Voice: You ask someone a question, they answer truthfully or not, but their thought-response is whispered into your ear.

If the SG feels that's too much of a streach, either add a Mu requisite (crackling of the fire now forms words, voicing responses to questions) or, if its InMe you're interested in, I've always found that CrMe and ReMe are better, anways. Remember, requisites are your friend, and enchantments give you so much leeway in designing effects.

Its hardly wrong, you know, giving someone a strong emotional compulsion to answer honestly, or just forcing them to tell the truth. Truth is good, after all. Secrets make angels cry. Now, tell me, where is the rebel base! :smiling_imp:

+1

Anyway, most intellego powers are best stored in the familiar link. Then they are always on and nobody gets warped.

Thanks guys.
It seems it's just as I feared :confused:

Increasing range to touch usually doesn't work, save for magical senses.
For exemple, if Peering into the Mortal Mind, the range is the range from the caster (the item) to the Target (the mind peered into). So, it seems to me you're toast, and need a second effect.
Worse case, those spells that allow mutual conversation, such as talking with a Fire through InMe

Good one! :smiley:

Depending on the Item, this might sometimes (depending on the item) solve the Peering effect nicely, in a very appropriate fashion :smiley:

Something that might be tangentially relevant is some text from the Watching Ward spell description (pg 162):

"If Intellego spells are included in the Watching Ward, they may be used to trigger the other spells. Thus if you put Frosty breath of the Spoken Lie (InMe 20) into the Watching Ward, you can also put in a spell that is cast when someone lies. An Intellego spell in the Watching Ward has no effect other than to cast other spells when the proper condition is detected. This, in the example, one's breath is not frosty when he or she is caught in a lie."

Now obviously Watching Ward isn't quite the same as an enchanted device, but I'd think it reasonable to apply the same principles.

As a storyguide I would probably present this as a challenge to players and as flavor in the Order. Since you could probably generally just add requisites (though maybe an extra magnitude in certain cases), the magi making the items will probably use requisites that are their strongest other Arts. So, for example, if several magi make an item to spy on an area (essentially the same item) you might get:

  1. A painting that changes its image to match what is there from a MuIm expert.
  2. A slab of stone that molds itself to match what is there from a MuTe expert.
  3. A mirror that displays an image of what is there from a CrIm expert.
  4. A knife that carves an image into what it's placed on from a ReTe expert.

That you could get so many variants and that the variants would tend to suggest something about the creator is fun and adds flavor.

Chris

How does the effect know what form to take, without an InIm effect? The one thing that might work would be the MuIm painting which could use a Re or In requisite.

I meant those as requisites attached to the InIm effect. The idea was about how to convey the knowledge gained via Intellego through the device, unless I misunderstood above. What might you do if you're good at one of Creo, Muto, Perdo, or Rego but not good at the others? It would probably differ from what someone good at a different one of those would do. Similar might happen with the Forms. I was just giving a bunch of similar ideas using different Arts.

Chris

Smart. In fact, I'd try to cut the characters a break and only look for one requisite. Most intellego effects have "cheat" flags with no requisites. I always like to reward magic with flair and personality.