Magi of the Various Tribunals?

Is it written just how many Magi are there in the Order?


How many magi there are in the various Tribunals?

How Many Magi -
which refers to
Size and Shape of the Post-Schism Order -

And I remembered a third one...
Magi Lifespans? -

{using search-fu: "population"}

Add to this "Key Facts" in all 3 Houses of Hermes books.

According to the HoH books:

Bjornaer = 79
Bonisagus = 81
Criamon = 94
Ex Miscellanea = 180 (give or take)
Flambeau = 114
Guernicus = 98
Jerbiton = 102
Mercere = 12 (+150 Redcaps)
Merinita = 68
Tremere = 92
Tytalus = 96
Verditius = 74

For a total of: 1,090 (1240 including Redcaps)

Similarly, "The Cradle and the Crescent" states that the Suhhar Suleiman has approximately 5,000 members and outnumbers its rivals in the OoH by a ratio of about 5:1.

Thank you,

Is there a list on how many magi there are at the various Tribunals?

IIRC, there are roughly 50-60 Tremere in Transylvania.

I always found the number of magi smaller than I would have put in the books. You can know 1000 guys, and I do not like it much. But yes, it is RAW

Regarding the Suleimans, does that number include only Gifted members or Ungifted as well? I assume the latter, but just to be sure.


The way it's phrased isn't entirely clear, but I've always assumed it to refer to the total number of sahir.

As for Dunia's question regarding the number of magi per Tribunal, I decided to consult my 5E tribunal books and got:
Rhine = 130 (more or less)
Normandy = "Just over a hundred"
Thebes = ???
Transylvania = ???

Sahirs don't require The Gift to be a member of their order. That number includes all sahirs, Gifted and unGifted. Personally, I imagine there are fewer Gifted sahirs in the Suhhar than magi in the Order, because the sahirs aren't necessarily searching for Gifted followers, so really cantankerous or Blatantly Gifted characters probably aren't worth the trouble.

Thank you, Jason. You are a true hero here on the Forums!

As soon as I get more salary, I hope to buy some books this coming month
I have the following:
Core Book
1 Tribunal Book (wont say which as I have a player snooping this forum and they are still apprentices and does not know where I will place them after the gauntlet)
Houses of Hermes (all 3)

I am unsure about what books are needed, apart from Covenants - which is a must. But Ia m looking for more history of the order and the various houses as two players have shown interest in that. So any suggestions to what books that are filled with information about things like: Shism War, the crisis of Tytalus and their fall to diabolism and other big happenings in the past?

  • 3rd edition book: lion of the north. War against Davnalleus. This is my fav OoH book ever.

  • RoP: Infernal. The same war, but much more sketchy. It includes an update of Davnalleus to 5th edition (changing the name to Damhand Allaidh or some other revisionist gibberish about "giving people their proper name and stuff like that. My parens called him Davnalleus, my grandparens called him davnalleus, so I call him Davnalleus as well). RoP: I also has the great thing of introducing DOZENS of potential antagonists. Not all of them bad people per se, but that can be real bitches to deal with.

  • Sub Rosa #13. A diverse take on House Diedne, including alternative explanations of the Schism War (it is all a lie!!).

  • 2nd (3rd?) edition Houses of Hermes and Order of Hermes. Include stories on the main events.

  • 3rd edition tribunal book: Iberia. It is infested by diabolism and demons (it was "cool" at the time of its writing; the authors are the creators of White Wolf and Vamipire, after all), but the story on Flambeau's death is just The Truth. And quite epic at it. Any other take on his demise is just hare krishna nonsense. IIRC you can read this in Sub Rosa #3 as well, on a Mark Faulkner (Marko Markoko here in the forums) on the knights of Seneca, that is a take that tries to reconcile the old 3rd edition info on Flambeau with the 5th edition take on the house.

All these old books can be found online at 2nd hand stores for fair prices.

The various tribunal books also include history of the Order of Hermes.


If I recall correctly, tCatC does state that Gifted sahirs are about 500.

Covenants is nice because it gives a ton of options and ideas, but I would not call it a must - the info about covenants in the Core book is quite enough. For Hermetic history, House books give you a good idea of what the important events of each house were. But for a more detailed timeline, look at Tribunal books (keep in mind that books from previous editions may contain facts and events that are not correct in 5th edition).

Didn't someone put together a complete timeline of events in the Order of Hermes, taken from the various books? Maybe I'm remembering something I wanted to have rather than something that exists, but it seems like it would be easy to compile for someone with the time.

Knowing 1000 people?
Dunbar's Number is only around 150 for most people.
I realise it's not quite what you meant but close enough.

Nom that is not what I meant. I meant that you are aware of the magi in the Levant and what they are doing when you live in Hibernia. At least you know some stuff about them. THat is a really small community after all, since basically you should know everybody that you come across if he is an Hermetic and you have done your homework. Stable relationships I think is something most hermetics will maintain with.... 3 other hermetics most of the time? :slight_smile:


The other Erik created a pretty good 4E timeline at