Magic-less systems


Question for the informed people around here. I am hunting the following things in the ArM5 books:

  1. Reagents (based on Philosophiae)

  2. Theriacs (based on Medicine)

  3. Inceptions (based on Artes Liberales)

  4. Enriched items

  5. Virtues that can give you some kind of lab-style magic, like mythic herbalism.

We are working around the idea of a bunch of magic-less dudes that wield mystic power to oppose our hedgies in our future long term (triamore-based) hedgie saga. The war against Davnalleus is proving to be quite a blast, so we are liking the idea. Some characters like gruagachan are seen as too powerful for us, though, so we are putting the mystical dial further down here.

Art and Academe has a bunch of the first 3 (it is the basis for them, after all) and ROP:M has Enriched items. Anywhere else where we should be searching?

Thx :slight_smile:


Hedge Magic Revised has Mythic Herbalism and Mythic Alchemy. City and Guild has Crafters Healing and Wondrous Items. I know there are a few other things scattered about. I think Ancient Magic has a few stand along supernatural virtues/abilities... Canaanite Necromancy being one IIRC...

If I understand correctly what you mean by:
"Virtues that can give you some kind of lab-style magic, like mythic herbalism"
you can look at Folk witches with the Rarified Tradition Flaw, that allows them use of their powers only through potions.
Figurine Magic from HoHTL is another option.

I was looking at single ability virtues (and flaws) here. Mythic herbalism is the one that springs to mind, but stuff like Hex or Touched by (Realm) can also work well. Some stuff that give you abilities that you perform in ritual/lab style, and that give you an ability that common folk will consider supernatural or worthy of notice. Maybe summoning, but that starts sounding too magic-y for what I am thinking about. I am thinking about mundanes armed with knowledge and (fairly) mundane abilities that give them a punch in the supernatural realm. Natural magicians, alchemists, astrologers, people with medicinal knowledge that is the epitome of their time...

As such I am more interested in compiling the reagents, theriacs inceptions and enriched items that can be found outside of A&A (the first 3) & ROP:M (items of virtue).


Maybe the Muspelli's Supernatural abilities from Rival Magic? WIthout Trolldomur they are... well, "just" supernatural abilities. Specially if taken separately.

(Also, I think there are some additional, gunpowder-related reagents in one of the first Sub Rosa issues, but I'm not sure if you're interested in that...).

That could work. I am searching for some military uses (read: combat "spells") for their abilities as well: thrown acids (aqua fortis and vitriol, several kinds of herbalism concoctions that are contact poisons...) and the like do work, so gunpowder reagents are not out of the question, even if they are not on top of my list. :slight_smile:

Didn't think to check SR. thanks for the pointer.


Officially there are those in AA and Antagonists has a few on pp21-22. HMRE has 2 on p81.

Unofficially, Sub Rosa 4 has some reagents pp19-20. And of course, the Non Hermetic Grimoire here has a bunch of stuffs.


Thanks rich!! :smiley:

I guess those are all that exist? you seem to have made quite a thorough research here!

Now only examples of enrtiched items to search for.

Sorry, I don't track those. "Enriched items" are Items of Virtue? If so I think RoP:M is the only book with those, that I can recall.

An item of virtue (or certain parts of a Beast of Virtue) can be enriched instead of used for vis. If you do that, you get a final product that grants a bonus, generally in the form of a minor virtue. ROP:M certainly have them (ROP:M p124, just checked) and examples of enrichment ofr creature parts and items of virtue. I am unaware if there are other sources for them.

Thanks a lot for your help again. very useful.


There's also the item enhancement a verditius can do.

Didn' t think of those. Nice one. I can see natural magicians bringing forward those properties in a high quality item, yup. :smiley:

I also found another item of quality: the perforated dripstones that you can get in Pzalz Island in GotF are items of virtue in everything but in name.


Related to "Enriched Items", the external vis left by defeated faeries can be put to good use albeit with some unfortunate side-effect...

Hmm.. will have to re-read my faeries. I do not remember it being any special...


Yes. Some faeries have a virtue (external vis? I don't remember), in which their vis is embodied in an item that can also grants a minor virtue to its wielder.
So, for exemple, if you defeat the dragon and take its heart instead of rending it for vis, you gain a lesser immunity to mundane fire. Something like that (serf's parma)
=> You can have "faerie items" granting a lot of minor virtues

Look at faerie sympathies and attunement, too. There must be a way to make some low-level flavorful charms here.