I don't have City & Guild, but I do have Art & Academe for some reason. I've never read it, nor do I allow its use in the games I run, because in my opinion it makes the setting less magical. It's like reading and loving a series about a fantasy world that has tamed dragons, only to find out in the later books that the inhabitants are descended from survivors of crashed spaceship and that the dragons they love are actually genetically engineered animals.
But, yeah, the reason I asked was because I was honestly surprised that mundanes could have a "Hermetic" laboratory and only do non-magical-related stuff in it.
Actually the philosophical labs are really underwhelming in terms of what you can make- it takes an entire season to make something that can be replicated by a level 5 spell. The only benefits are 1) you can make medicines that restore fatigue and 2) you can have permanent effects without vis on philosophical labs (the astrological lab results are vague, difficult, and unreliable, and still take an entire season to answer a fairly simple question)
The far more dangerous part of Arts and Acadamie is in the section for artists- where by truly exceptional skill and a very dedicated life an artist can become a being with might dedicated to whichever realm they align with. Turtle was kind of headed in that direction, though from a relatively ordinary beginning.
These are at +4 (age) for the first 3 and +5 for the last 3, with a -5 modifier for Yanni's bread and -1 for clean mountain air.
Results:
No apparent aging
apparent age increase
no apparent aging
apparent age increase
apparent age increase
Presence drops from 2 to -1 aging crisis: aging crisis: 1D10+6 = [9]+6 = 15 medical help Marius: 1D10 = [2] = 2
Int+medicine=8, so her medicine may be added to his survival total: survive crises (3+ required): 1D10+4 = [6]+4 = 10
crisis survived - character unavailable for teaching in winter 1242
But then, he's supposed to give "only" -2 to aging rolls, not -5 (which would be the equivalent of a lvl 50LR for mundanes characters), so if he's been brought into the game later, your math above is off.
His baking has improved, but my math may also be off... he currently has cooking:13, with the specialization in bread according to the savant rules being at 16, dex of 3, workshop innovation of 2, workshop supplies at 2, total workshop total of 23, as opposed to 11 when he was first created. +12 to total means +4 to quality bonus, so it should have been at -6 instead of -5...
I also realize I need to update the character- I don't like the way we have all the grogs shoved into 1 thread when it comes to tracking their development...
So you're saying that this controversial character just gives any mundane character the equivalent of a lvl 60 longevity ritual, while in practice "improving" the ones on magi by 30 levels.
This does seem a little... overstated for bread, even without assuming he can produce that for the whole covenant.
But then, why not? Although I think you're pushing it, I can get the "This is bread from one so great it becomes magical in its effects" deal. But, as marko wrote, this is very big deal: Assuming he can do that, why would he just be a guy forgotten in the back of our covenant, when princes and archmagi alike would vie for him?
To begin with he can't produce enough for the entire covenant. We worked out the actual numbers once- basically he produces enough bread for himself, the magi, and some of the companions- presumedly favoring the older companions.
The other thing is for the bread to have this benefit you have to keep eating it. Unlike a longevity ritual you can't just eat the bread once and be covered until it fails.
As for why he is sitting in the back of the covenant early forgotten... we have had this discussion about the effects of his bread before and yet people still continue to leave him in the bakery and forget about him. Probably because as a savant he is more than a little intimidated about the idea of leaving the covenant without protection, and really sees little reason to leave the covenant...
Nothing was ever "established". A coment uncontested does not imply agreement. Too much goes on to catch everything and honestly people are intimidated by the thought of having to disagree with Silveroak. I often am and just stay quiet and let others do my dirtywork.
The numbers are a bit redicuous and common sense dictates they should be dialed down. Also, if he is employed by the covenant Yanni works in the main kitchen and cooks for everyone and not just Marius. Also, I think Yanni is a nickname. Forgot the real name. Similar situation with Donna. Numbers are just redicuous so I ignore them.
It isn't just me. I am usuay fine with handwaving and keeping resuts minimal enough to cause few waves as possible.
So, my humble request is that the numbers get toned down or the effects are limited to Yanni and his sister.
I was fine with him cooking for everyone, you were the one who had a problem with this, so we did the math and found he would be productive enough to cook for the Magi and I believe it was 2/3 of the companions. This isn't a matter of you keeping quiet, this is what we had worked out last time we hashed through this issue.
To be fair, I think it would be simpler to give the bonus to everyone (or at least all magi and companions), and assume that if there is any kind of shortage it is irrelevant due to the fact that the older members eat more of his bread.
Can someone explain how an 8+2+1 (I'm assuming the +2 is for Puissant Baking and the +1 is the Dwarven craft bonus) translates into a -2 to aging or recuperation rolls, or how it got to the -6 that we're talking about now? I honestly don't remember seeing anything like that anywhere, and haven't the foggiest where to start looking for that.
But that still doesn't....wait. Workshop. That's...City & Guild? Let's see...workshops. P. 65 and on.
Found it. Superior Items (p. 69) provides a +1 to specific items, and gives an example of a diet of superior bread for a year giving a +1 modifier to Aging rolls. Excellent items give an appropriate bonus of an additional +1 for every 3 points that the Workshop total exceeds the Craft Level. The Craft Level for Excellent Quality items is 15 (p. 67); 23-15=8, so that's 3, or 2 if you don't round up. The total bonus limit is Craft Ability/3 rounded up, or +5 (Cooking score of 13).
Which gets us to a +3 or +4 bonus to Aging rolls (not Recovery rolls, I didn't see that mentioned there). Which...doesn't feel right.
And, granted it's 1am and way the deuce past my bedtime, but I thought I saw Marko say he doesn't have C&G or A&A and would rather that we not use them, but I can't find that now. But...I'm sitting here wrinkling my nose, scowling, and shaking my head. so...
A superior Item at 12 gives a +1 bonus, at 15 they get a +1 to all things that item would lend a bonus to, and an additional +1 for every 3 levels above that. So 23 would be +4 to the +1 at level 15.