New-New list.
[/quote]
I put Bartholomew on the list. He is a direct hire, not part of the Mercenary company. He will get assigned to a magus in need of a shield grog 
Here is the first of my grog characters for review.
[hr][/hr]
[size=150]Andre[/size]
Age: 44 (??)
Andre has been a grog since his birth. He has been raised to serve magi, or in his particular case, a magus. Early on, Andre showed an aptitude for learning. As a result, he was sent to a grammar school, and even to a university for a short time. His lessons were further added to at the covenant for such skills as magical theory and magical lore. All of this was by way of preparing him for the position of assistant to a magus. He would serve the magus as valet, laboratory assistant, companion, and anything else that was needed.
Andre was assigned to Lucas for his last year of apprenticeship and has been serving him ever since.
CHARACTERISTICS
[table][tr][th][left]Characteristic[/left][/th][th]Value[/th] [th]Cost[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Intelligence[/td][td][center]+2[/center][/td] [td][center]3[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Perception[/td] [td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Strength[/td][td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stamina[/td][td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Presence[/td][td][center]0[/center][/td][td][center]0[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Communication[/td][td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Dexterity[/td][td][center]0[/center][/td] [td][center]0[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Quickness[/td][td][center]0[/center][/td] [td][center]0[/center][/td][/tr][/table]
VIRTUES
[table][tr][th][left]Virtue[/left][/th][th]Points[/th][th]Level[/th] [th]Type[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Covenfolk[/td] [td][center]0[/center][/td] [td][center]free[/center][/td][td][center]status[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Arcane Lore[/td] [td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]minor[/center][/td] [td][center]general[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Educated[/td][td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]minor[/center][/td][td][center]general[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Linguist[/td][td][center]+1[/center][/td] [td][center]minor[/center][/td][td][center]general[/center][/td][/tr][/table]
FLAWS
[table][tr][th][left]Flaw[/left][/th][th]Points[/th][th]Level[/th] [th]Type[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Humble[/td][td][center]-1[/center][/td] [td][center]minor[/center][/td][td][center]personality[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Temperate[/td][td][center]-1[/center][/td] [td][center]minor[/center][/td] [td][center]personality[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Small Frame[/td] [td][center]-1[/center][/td] [td][center]minor[/center][/td][td][center]general[/center][/td][/tr][/table]
PERSONALITY
[table][tr][td]Humble[/td] [td]+2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Attentive[/td][td]+3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Industrious[/td][td]+1[/td][/tr][/table]
ACADEMIC ABILITIES
[table][tr][th][left]Ability[/left][/th][th][left]Speciality[/left][/th][th]Value[/th] [th]Cost[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Artes Liberales - Latin, Greek, Arabic alphabets[/td] [td]music[/td] [td][center]3[/center][/td] [td][center]30[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Latin[/td][td]hermetic usage[/td] [td][center]4[/center][/td] [td][center]40/50[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Medicine[/td] [td]physician[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Philosophiae[/td][td]moral philosophy[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr][/table]
ARCANE ABILITIES
[table][tr][th][left]Ability[/left][/th][th][left]Speciality[/left][/th][th]Value[/th] [th]Cost[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Magic Lore[/td] [td]creatures[/td] [td][center]3[/center][/td] [td][center]30[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Magic Theory[/td] [td]inventing spells[/td] [td][center]3[/center][/td] [td][center]30[/center][/td][/tr][/table]
GENERAL ABILITIES
[table][tr][th][left]Ability[/left][/th][th][left]Speciality[/left][/th][th]Value[/th] [th]Cost[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Burgundy Lore[/td] [td]people[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]0[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Animal Handling[/td] [td]horses[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Athletics[/td] [td]grace[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Awareness[/td][td]alertness[/td][td][center]3[/center][/td] [td][center]30[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Bargain[/td] [td]food and lodgings[/td] [td][center]4[/center][/td] [td][center]50[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Brawl[/td] [td]dodging[/td][td][center]4[/center][/td] [td][center]50[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Carouse[/td][td]staying sober[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Charm[/td] [td]being dryly witty[/td] [td][center]3[/center][/td] [td][center]30[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Chirurgery[/td][td]bind wounds[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Concentration[/td][td]lab work[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]5[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Etiquette[/td] [td]magi[/td] [td][center]4[/center][/td] [td][center]50[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Folk Ken[/td] [td]magi[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Guile[/td] [td]lying for his magus[/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td] [td][center]5[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Intrigue[/td] [td]gossip[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Language: French[/td] [td]Bourguignon[/td] [td][center]5[/center][/td] [td][center]60/75[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Language: Spanish[/td] [td]Castilian[/td] [td][center]4[/center][/td] [td][center]16/20[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Language: Occitan[/td] [td]Catalan[/td][td][center]5[/center][/td] [td][center]48/60[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Language: Arabic[/td] [td]Classical[/td][td][center]4[/center][/td] [td][center]40/50[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Leadership[/td][td]servants[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Music[/td] [td]lute[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Order of Hermes Lore[/td] [td]politics[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Profession (Valet)[/td] [td]serving magi[/td] [td][center]5[/center][/td] [td][center]75[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Profession (Lab Assistant)[/td] [td]researching spells[/td] [td][center]5[/center][/td] [td][center]75[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Profession (Cook)[/td] [td]simple meals[/td] [td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Profession (Scribe)[/td] [td]copying books[/td] [td][center]3[/center][/td] [td][center]30[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ride[/td][td]long distances[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stealth[/td][td]moving about quietly[/td][td][center]2[/center][/td] [td][center]15[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Swim[/td][td]staying afloat[/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td] [td][center]5[/center][/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Teaching[/td] [td]Profession (Lab Assistant)[/td] [td][center]0[/center][/td] [td][center]1[/center][/td][/tr][/table]
ENCHANTED ITEMS
Longevity Ritual: Level 30
Ring of the Valet: Lesser Enchanted Device
This is a ring with a clear crystal set into it that can be used to cast Expel Dirt from Clothing at will.
ReTe 15 Expel Dirt from Clothing
R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Group
(Base 2, +1M Touch, +2M Group, +10 Unlimited Use)
[hr][/hr]
Expel Dirt from Clothing ReTe 5
This spell causes all of the dirt to be repelled from a set of clothing and fall to the floor.
(Base 2, R: Touch +1, D: Mom. +0, T: Group +2)
This is my first attempt at making a shield grog. So please tell me what I'm doing wrong.
[hr][/hr]
[size=150]Petrus de Cunfin[/size]
Characteristics: Int +1, Per +1, Com +1, Pre +1, Str +2, Sta +1, Dex +1, Quik +1
Size: 0
Age: 35 (35)
Chonology: Born 1201; raised and trained by covenant; joined covenant guard in 1219; rose to rank of sergeant in 1226; selected as shield grog in 1230; transferred to protect Lucas de Mercere in 1234
Decrepitude: 0
Warping: 0 (1)
Virtues: +1 Custos (sergeant), +1 Improved Characteristics, +1 Puissant (Single Weapon)
Flaws: -3 Ambitious (to become commander someday)
Personality Traits: Ambitious +3, Loyal +2, Brave +2
Reputations: none
Abilities: Animal Handling 2 (horses), Area Lore: Burgundy 2 (fortifications), Athletics 4 (running), Awareness 2 (alertness), Bows 4 (longbow), Brawl 4 (dodging), Carouse 2 (drinking songs), Charm 1 (impressing superiors), Chirurgery 2 (bind wounds), Dead Language: Latin 3 (slang), Etiquette 1 (magi), Folk Ken 1 (covenfolk), Great Weapon 2 (warhammer), Guile 1 (ruse de guerre), Hunt 1 (boar), Living Language: French 5 (Bourguignon), Living Language: Occitan 4 (Catalan), Leadership 4 (in combat), Music 1 (singing), Profession: Soldier 3 (bodyguard), Ride 3 (battle), Single Weapon 6+2 (heater shield), Stealth 1 (camouflage), Survival 2 (foraging), Swim 2 (long distances), Thrown Weapon 2 (rock)
Equipment: Longsword, heater shield, dagger, chainmail hauberk
Enchanted Items: Longevity Ritual, level 30; 40 points for some other magic items
Background: Petrus was taken in by the Cunfin covenant as an orphan, and given a job as a servant. Over the course of the next year, he proved himself both loyal and competant, and was accepted into martial training. By the time he was 18, he was a soldier in the covenant's guard. By the time he was 25, he was a sergeant. Two years later, he was tapped to be a shield grog for a redcap at the covenant. Just recently, he was assigned to Lucas de Mercere, a young magus who was traveling to join the Andorra covenant.
Give me some time to review both of these characters, and I will get back to you 
Yanni the Baker Age 26
Characteristics:
Int 0 Per 0
Pre 2 Com 0
Str -1 Sta -1
Dex 3 Quick 0
Virtues
puissent craft(minor +1)
faerie blood dwarf(minor +1)
affinity craft(minor +1)
Flaws
savante(minor -1)
outsider(minor -1)
incomprehensible(minor -1)
Abilities
Catalan 5
area lore-Baeleric 2
folk ken 3
survival 2
area lore-North Africa 1
Arabic 1
cooking-bread 8+2+1
leadership 3
Occitain 1
carouse 2
I realize this is a bit of going back to the less popular style of character creation I have done before, but with Savante it makes a bit more sense, and the guy makes bread that can add +2 to any aging or recuperation rolls...
Background: Yanni was born... special. He was raised in the bakery by his mother. His father left when he was a teenager, he was never certain if it was because Yanni was a disappointment or because Yanni was already a better baker than his father. His mom told him it wasn't his fault but he wasn't sure he believed that. His mother handled the business- contracts, orders, everything but the baking and the kitchen. His mother has died, and he has been recruited to work at the covenant of Andorra.
Sigh...
I don't want to come down on you, I understand how you might feel enthusiast, but... This feels wrong.
Really, aside from having an optimized character that's gonna give Living Conditions bonuses to the covenant, what's his point? Do you think you will you play him? Or anyone else for that matter?
I mean, in what way is he interesting or fun to play aside from being an incomprehensible idiot savant obsessed with making bread? He doesn't even have personality traits that would make him feel less one-dimensional :-/
And how many characters utterly optimized for one thing are there lying around?
It's easy to create exceptional characters that are gonna push about every total in the covenant by +2 or more. Clothiers, bakers, Arrowers, Bowmakers, Weaponsmiths, Armorsmiths, Weavers... But it gets quickly ridiculous.
For what it's worth, don't you think this character would have been more interesting AND more credible if, instead of being all-focused, with the right stat, the right affinity, the right puissance, the right faerie blood, he was a 50-years old normal baker with Dex 1, skill 9 (yes, slightly below the standard maximum for his age) and interests and skills aside from providing us with Living Conditions bonuses?
More credible, yes, more interesting, no. As to whether he will get played, it is hard to say. How much happens inside the covenant? Aside from his ability as a baker he is very vulnerable, and less of a contributor to finding solutions and more of a contributor to making a story interesting. Yes he still needs some flushing out (personality traits) but on the other hand he really is built around the savant disadvantage...
This sort of guy is best suited as an NPC, and as a storyhook. The characters discover him and find out what he can do. So, of course, they will want to secure his services. But that is where it gets complicated. The baker is the slave to a faerie giant, or the "idiot" son of a powerful nobel, or or is the private baker of a powerful archmagus.
Super characters require super stories. If you wanna work together and run/play such a story, that is a possibility.
Certainly works for me, but we should probably take any such collaboration into a more private chat...
Hold that thought for now. Let me get some other things organized and set up properly.
(Okay, finally getting around to building Solomon’s shield grog. His name has changed from Alexandre to Alexandrus. Also, I’ll be writing up his daughter Maria (now 15) sometime in the near future. One note, my understanding of Enduring Constitution is that it will NOT negate the -1 penalty given from Lingering Injury, since it’s not a wound penalty. So Alexandrus will always have the -1 from Lingering Injury, but will reduce any penalties from wounds by 1.)
Alexandrus was born outside of Naples on the estate of a noble whose lands were built on the outskirts of the former site of Pompeii. His father was a villein who worked the lands of the lord and led a relatively good life for a peasant. Once he was old enough, Alexandrus took up the position of shepherd within the lord’s famulus. While not an exciting life, Alexandrus proved to be a good shepherd and his lord was relatively beneficent, gifting him with a sheep on Christmas each year. He eventually fell in love with the lord’s dairymaid, and after several years that had saved enough to be married. Life was good, but difficult, and Alexandrus and his wife were happy. Finally, just after his 27th birthday, they finally gave birth to their daughter, Maria.
But tragedy was soon to follow. Just months after Maria was born, a wicked infernalist hermetic wizard, a succubus and their sex cult killed the lord of the manor and took over his demesne. All of the lord’s family was murdered and many of the slaves and villeins were killed as well. The famuli did their best to serve the wizard and his cult for fear of death. Alexandrus was forced to watch as his wife was routinely ravaged by the lustful cultists while the succubus drew pleasure, and power, from her agony.
In the Fall of 1221, Alexandrus would finally see peace for his wife. A group of Hermetic wizards, led by Solomon of Guernicus, attacked the cult and eventually killed the infernalist and abjured the succubus. Unfortunately, the wounds his wife had received, coupled with the constant trauma she had undergone for last 9 months were too much for her to overcome. Solomon performed the Sacrament of Extreme Unction over her, and Alexandrus pledged himself to Solomon as long as he would keep his daughter safe.
Alexandrus has served as Solomon’s shield grog ever since, traveling with his daughter Maria first back to Magvillus with him, then to the covenant of Duresca, and now to Andorra.
Alexandrus
Characteristics: Int +0, Per +1, Pre +0, Com -1, Str +2, Sta +2, Dex +1, Qui +0
Size: 0
Age: 40
Height: 5’11
Weight: 190#
Decrepitude: 0
Warping Score: 0
Confidence: 1(3)
Virtues:
Enduring Constitution (minor)
Mild Aging [Grogs, pg 76] (minor)
Warrior (minor)
Hermetic Experience [Grogs, pg 75] (adventure-15 xp)
Flaws:
Devoted Parent [Grogs, pg 79] (minor)
Pious (minor)
Night Terrors [Grogs, pg 82] (minor)
Lingering Injury [Grogs, pg 81] (adventure)
Personality Traits:
Brave +1
Loyal +3
Pious +3
Reputation:
Combat: (Lingering Injury already applied)
Toledo Long Sword (& Roundshield): Initiative +1, Attack +12, Defense +8 (+10), Damage +8
Spear (& Roundshield): Initiative +1, Attack +8, Defense +6 (+8), Damage +6
Thrown Spear: Initiative -1, Attack +8, Defense N/A, Damage +6
Soak (Full Metal Scale) : +2 (+9)
Fatigue Levels: OK, 0, –1, –3, –5, Unconscious
Wound Penalties: –1 (1-5), –3 (6-10), –5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20), Dead (21+)
Load: 9
Encumbrance: 1
Burden: 3
Abilities:
Animal Handling (sheep) 4
Area Lore: Calabria (animals) 2
Area Lore: Iberia (geography) 2
Artes Liberales (arithmetic) 1
Athletics (running) 3
Awareness (alertness) 5
Bargain (wool) 2
Brawl (dodging) 4
Carouse (staying sober) 2
Charm (first impressions) 3
Chirurgy (binding wounds) 3
Dead Language: Latin (Hermetic usage) 4
Etiquette (peasants) 3
Folk Ken (peasants) 5
Single Weapon (long sword) 6
Guile (fast talk) 2
Hunt (tracking) 2
Leadership (in combat) 2
Living Language: Neopolitan (Native, Northern Calabrian) 5
Living Language: Occitan (Catalan) 2
Magic Lore (magical creatures) 2
Order of Hermes Lore (Quaesitores) 2
Ride (horses) 3
Stealth (hide) 2
Survival (forests) 3
Swim (underwater maneuvering) 2
Thrown Weapon (spear) 5
I see that Solomon's shield grog has a Toledo sword. How does one go about getting one's grog such a sword?
I'm probably going to be told he can't have it. Honestly I just grabbed it off the Almogaver template from the wiki and used the stats there.
Quality Items and Items of Quality ue the same formula (for determining cost). In terms of q.p.) equals twice the pyramid value of the bonus provided. If an item provides more than one bonus, charge for each of them. Remember, experience points can be spent as q.p. during CharGen. Also, with an exchange rate of a pawn of Vis to twelve pounds Silver, 1q.p. equals three pounds silver. Not sure if values of items equal out, but I know this formula works fair for CharGen.
So, a Toledo Steel Longsword. Are you able to equip yourself with Expensive armaments? That is required for a regular long sword anyways. I have let that slip I know, and since you are paying a cost I can just wave at it. But you are also a Grog, so I should limit you. I do think the Flame Brothers are limited to Superior quality items.
These are the Category names I am using, so you can avoid labeling your arms as "+1 sword and +2 shield". The bonus is added to Attack for Weapons, Defense for Shields, and Protection for Armour.
-
Superior: +1 (4q.p.)[list]
[]Supreme: +1/+1 (8q.p.): Toledo Steel qualifies as slightly better to Superior, adding +1 to Attack and Damage
[/:m]
[*]Excellent: +2 or better (varies): For weapons, the bonus is added to Attack and Damage. - Excellent: +2 (8q.p.) or +2/+2 (16q.p.)
-
Exceptional: +3 (12q.p.) or +3/+3 (24q.p.)
[/*:m][/list:u]
Nice one.
I'd just add a line saying how he chose to follow solomon and undertook training before becoming his shield grog: As it is, it seems he became so without even breaking a sweat or knowing how to fight, whereas he shouldn't before meeting solomon. Like, I can see him following Solomon, training as much as he can, impressing everyone with his dedication, participating in some fights, putting himself between Solomon and threats, until Solomon officialises the whole thing.
Dunno if I'm clear.
As a grog, he should have no confidence.
Agree.
This was a great virtue in previous Eds, not-so much now (although, in a way, one could compare it to a +1 to everything that applies only when wounded*). I believed we have a HR about it, but found no trace in the wiki.
- Nice special circumstances for a warrior magi.
Aaargh! You're all confusing me.
According to the first rule, per bonus:
+1 costs 02qps
+2 costs 06qps
+3 costs 12qps
According to the second rule, that's just (bonus*4) qps, so:
+1 costs 04qps
+2 costs 08qps
+3 costs 12qps
The wiki had a cost of 3*pyramid, which I updated with your descriptions, and that would put us as:
+1 costs 03qps
+2 costs 09qps
+3 costs 18qps
Which one is the right one?
I cannot find that weapons and armor section in the HR's. I knew I had written something, but remember taking it down when I realized the piecemeal system gunks up the established RAW guidelines for enchantment and such. The prices I quoted here come from the Hermetic Price Guide, and the values are based off of a conversation you once had with me and Xavi (which I cannot find).
Researching a bit, I discovered the source of confusion. The x4 price is the original rule for Items of Quality. Pyramid x3, not sure where that came from. That may have been the original revision proposed. Pyramid x2 is the value suggested by Fixer when Xavi was revising Arnau.
So, x2 or x3 does not matter much to me. As long as their is a pyramid scale in place. The Px2 price is in the Hermetic Price Guide section of Hermetic Economics, which is directly linked to the rules on Mustering out. A player will naturally come across that rule first before stumbling along the weapons page on the wiki (which I didn't know existed, but I am grateful because that saves me the effort of writing it all over again).
So the question is thus...
Which rule have people been using, and which one do you guys think is most fair? I myself prefer Px2. Roberto was made using the straight x4 rule, and maybe he should be audited and revised.
I use the rule of "Oh, you want blah? It costs blah."
To be honest, my eyes glazed over ages ago and it feels to me that we have more house rules (and rules imported from supplements that I neither have nor any overwhelming interest in buying in the foreseeable future) than I can keep track of or pay attention to. So, if I wanted to do something, I would just say what I wanted to do or have and trust that someone who's been able to follow it better than I have can get me straightened out if I do it wrong.
Good point. I did try to simplify some of the HR's with the last revision. And I want to trim them down again some more. But it is wise to be concerned only with what your character(s) would be concerned with.
There is a bunch of stuff that never gets used that was put in place as a "just in case". We can toss a lot of that. What I should limit my concern to is the stuff people actually use. People want quality weapons. I like quality weapons. But I also want a simple system with some limits.
Yes. I agree with Marko: All this developped because players kept asking "I want this! I want that!", so, even if one player don't use it all (I mean, I only used hermetic items and LR rules!), they are here because, at one point of another, someone asked for it. No one will use them all
For the cost, I think the pyramidal scale is a must be, maybe with an "entry" cost (so a Quality item could cost x + ypyramid, like 5 + 2pyramid)
The multiplier depends on whether we want them to be more or less common. As it is, as I see it, they give a nice, cheap boost to you abilities, especially important for ability scores of 5+, making you all the more powerful in your area of expertise.
An ability gives +1 for 5/15/30/50/75 XPs.
An item roughly boosts a specialty of an ability, like Single Weapon (shortsword), Charm (Dogs) or Andorra Area Lore (Geography).
Even at Px5, it is, IMO, a very good deal, which means that a lot of characters will easily have Quality items relative to their specialty.
Px2 gives a +1 to a skill subset for 2/6/12/20xp.
Px3 gives a +1 to a skill subset for 3/9/18/30xp, a little more costly.
So it depends on how prevalent we want these to be.