Mastered Spells and Meta-Magic

I am unclear about how Spell Mastery affects MuVi metamagics. With particular notice of Multi-casting.

It is uncertain how much latitude there is in the default 5th Ed spell descriptions when it comes to mastering spells. Since there doesn't seem to be a prevailing belief on these forums that the optimal magus build is a MuVi specialist with Mastery, I am going to assume that the most munchkin interpretations are not upheld by the group consensus.

Still, what happens in you master Wizard's Communion with Multi-cast? The default spell description states "All the Magi in the gathering who know Wizard's Communion add the level at which they know it to get the effective level of the Wizard's Communion." and "...the target number for the spellcasting roll is the spell's level divided by the number of magi participating in the Communion..."
So can Multicasting be used here?

I see 3 possible interpretations:

  1. Each multicast counts as a separate mage participating - hence a MuVi multi-cast expert could easily cast and/or strongly Penetrate other formulaic spells with the target number reduction they could give themselves by solo boosting.
  2. Each multicast adds to the effective Communion level, but only counts as 1 mage participating - hence the MuVi multi-cast expert couldn't solo boost his own casting.
  3. Multi-casting can't get past the wording of the spell, and you are a single mage contributing a single boost to the effective level. Though you could probably be simultaneously part of two different groups using Wizard's Communion.

Then there is weirdness when you use Sorcerer's Fork and multicast Wizard's Boost on the resulting two spells. Or would it be better to Wizard's Boost the original spell before applying Sorcerer's Fork?

Alt 1 falls in the destructive munchkin category in my book.

You forget Alt 4. The multicasting magus can take part in multiple simultaneous communions. I'd prefer that. OK Who would bother, so it really leaves us with 3.

I left in alternative 1 to indicate I hadn't overlooked it.
Unless there is another, more munchkin interpretation???

I tend to go with 3. Not because it is necessarily correct, but because of the number of wierd things I can break with the other options. Especially 1.

Mind you, Loke's
4. The multicasting magus can take part in multiple simultaneous communions.
works as well, but is such a corner case that I'd discounted it.

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Absolutely. The advantage of 4 is that it preserves the generality of the rules. The mastery options remain valid, and the players are free to use them, even though they are very unlikely to do so. Giving the players worth-less choices is better than making special case rulings.

It is a bit like the quiet options for voice range spells, although that is a case with a somewhat bigger corner.

In case of a discussion in the troupe, you anyway have ArM5 p.160 Wizard's Communion: "Communion is a remnant of Mercurian magic, so spontaneous spells may not be cast by this means, and it does not perfectly fit into the guidelines of Hermetic theory."

Multiplying number of participating magi or raising communion level by casting a remnant of Mercurian magic mastered for Multicasting may fail on many levels: easy to adjudicate is limiting Mastery special abilities for this spell family (which includes also TtA p.75 Wizard's Vigil), and disallowing Multiple Casting, Fast Casting and others which do not smell ancient Mercurian. The HoH:S p.34 box Mercurian Spell Mastery Abilities look all pretty adequate here.

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I will concede that Wizard's Communion does not dovetail well with Hermetic magic, so the standard Spell Mastery abilities that the Founder Flambeau gave his signature spell before he met Bonisagus, may not work with it.

However, what of other metamagic spells?
Say Wizard's Boost (Form) and Wizard's Reach (Form). Say our hypothetical Flambeau mage, in honour of his Founder, has mastered Pilum of Fire with all 6 mastery abilities of Flambeau, and wishes to use one or the other of the Metamagic spells to improve his Multicast Pilum. If he hasn't mastered the metamagic to the same level, and can only multicast them fewer times, can he Boost any of the multicastings of the Pilum?

Is there some metamagic MuVi apart from Wizard's Communion that boosts the Penetration of a spell (that your mage casts)?

Are these Mercurian Spell Mastery Abilities actual Mercurian magic, or just reconstructions/wishful aspirations of the Cult of Mercury members?

The latter! How could special abilities from Hermetic Spell Mastery be real Mercurian magic?

There is MoH p.51 Sharpening ther Wizard's Blade of Vim: the effect is to increase Penetration of effects in a Talisman - but its design would make a spell to increase another spell's Penetration as well. This design assumes, that the MuVi effect is an ArM5 p.159 box total change of spell/effect.

ArM5 p.87 Multiple Casting specifies, thqt "each spell must be rolled for separately", can affect another target and lead to another result even before applying MuVi to it. So to me these spells look like different targets of MuVi spells - like ArM5 p.160 Wizard's Reach or Wizard's Boost - as well.

So if he can mulicast PoF 7 times, but only multicast Wizard's boost 3 times, it sounds like you are suggesting 3 castings of the PoF will be boosted, while 4 won't be?


Multicasting MuVi is still tricky and a troupe may hold that it is not possible at all, but I would allow it.

I was wondering if it was all or nothing