Mutable Device (new Minor Hermetic Virtue)

I asked and found about the Mutable Device.

It can only be used on Enchanted devices not on invested.
It adds +10 to level.
Items enchantmend can be changed in one season with 1 pawn of vis, and level can not be raised.

I think it is mostly useless. You can not make items better.

I think better version would be…

Only used on Invested Items. Not on talismans.
One item can only hold one enchantmen. Mutable enchantmen takes the whole item.
Add+5 to level.
It is Minor Hermetic Virtue (minor breakthrough)
Items enchantment can be altered with difficulty (original level + [level of changesX2]) versus lab total.
Even if the level of the effect does not go higher or lower it is counted as a change (example: rising touch to voice and lowering concentration to momentary is +10 change)
Cost pawn of vis 1 per changes in levels/10 rounded up.
Must be room for added vis in invested item as is normal in rules.

Examples. Wand with Agony Of The Beast with 24 uses in the day is level 20 effect.
Agony Of The Beast as mutable with 24 uses is level 25 effect.
Invested wooden wand that has been opened fully with 4 pawn of vis and then is enchanted with mutable AotB cost 3 vis to install. If later the AotB enchantmend is changed from 24 uses a day to unlimited, difficulty will be 35 (original 25 +[5x2]) and cost 1 pawn of wis, and there will no more room in the wand for furter changes.

This way you can make object better as you develop and don’t have to start all over again each time.

I was thinking it as a minor hermetic breacktrough and as a new minor Verditius mystery.

Does this work?
What needs to be changed?

[size=50]Is it possible to chance the spells in encanted items?
Example: If magus was not skilled enough to make a spell with range/duration/target as high as he wanted, could he later rise the items spells range/duration/target?

Since this is not evedently possible, how about this.

Minor Breakthrough: New Minor Verditius House Mystery : Amplify Invested Items
Good goal for a magi.[/size]

[size=50]If a magus has a enchanted item that has a mental trigger, (item has a spell that reads magus toughts all time so it can activate from correct tought trigger) does his parma magica need to be supressed so that magic item can read his toughts, or does the item need high penetration to be able to get trough?

Also if enchanted item gives magus some constant effect does he need to suppress his parma magica all the time?[/size]

Yes, unless placed upon the magus's talisman at Personal range. That's one of the big benefits of a talisman. A magus has exactly the same problem when casting spells on himself if they're not Personal range.

No, just when the spell is cast. Do note that a "constant" effect is basically cast twice per day. (You can see how this can apply to the above question to make the item reading thoughts easier, too.)


I think I got solution.
Give the talisman these two spells.

Read surface thougts. 30 Int/Me
Talisman reads mages thoughts all the time.


Greate toughts. 28 (base 3, +2m voice, +2m group, +10 unlimited, +3 Linked trigger)
The talisman shares the mental commands that it reads with other enchanted items.

If you cast a spell on yourself with another range than "personal" you have few penetration modifier:

  • you have your true name
  • you have your blood and your body
  • you have your bones

Penetration is not a problem.

Provided you put a decent amount of xp in your Penetration ability. If your Penetration is 0, all the modifiers in the world won't help you !

You have a permanent arcane connection to yourself + symbolic representation + secret name + nickname + blood relative which gives a 10x multiplier. To counter 4 in Parma, you need +20 or 2 in Penetration.

a device which constant reads your mind is going to give you warping, albeit only 1 point per year, but if you're under a few of them then you're going to warp swiftly.

personal effects in your talisman count as part of 'you' and therefore don't need to penetrate so this would get around it.

effects to read minds in other devices would be external and would need to penetrate and I don't think Items can use arcane connections therefore can't benefit from mutlipliers but can benefit from inbuilding penetration into the device...


Another question.

Can I make a Item with a effect that moves objects, people, animals, animal products, plants and plant products but only has a one spell that does this, and not a spell for moving each?

All encompassing telekinesia.

Add requisites to the spell that gets the highest base level.

And in any case to the Parma vs Penetrtion don't forget the Score on Mentem Form.

No, you normally cannot change an enchantment. If it's a greater enchanted device, you can add enchantments, but not change the ones in it. I see two good ways to accomplish what you want. 1) You could later add a MuVi spell to the greater enchanted device to affect the first spell, effectively increasing its range, duration, etc., though in an inefficient way. 2) You could build the first effect in the greater enchanted device with effect expiry. This will allow you to pull off a higher level spell, which may give you what you want. When it expires you could replace it with the same effect or put something better in its place.


I thought the capacity used by enchantment was permanent and with Effect Expiry it'd become dead space. Is this undefined in RAW?

except MuVi does go in items, IIRC noble's parma

"Is it possible to chance the spells in enchanted items?"

Yes. It is a mystery in Ancient Magic, Mutable Device. So while you probably will not start the game with that ability, it can be discovered, and pre-existing items with this ability can also be found. A very useful, if dangerous, Mystery to discover.

I'm confused. You say "except" and then agree with me. Did you mean "doesn't" instead of "does"? Yes, MuVi can go in items. The restriction is that they must act on spells within the item.


I think it's undefined. I could be wrong, though.


Yep, I just checked the "Effect Expiry" of the ArM5 laboratory chapter, and it doesn't say. Closest it comes is saying "A single item may mix temporary and permanent effects." My instinct is to allow the space to be used again.

I meant doesn't.

And I just re-read MuVi and you're right, they can specifically go in items when they only affect effects in the same item.
I still wouldn't let them affect penetration, but Magi of Hermes has a counter example.

Re-reading, I'm not so sure.

  • Invested Items p96: "It is not possible to remove an effect ..."
  • Effect Expiry p99: "... which only work for a limited period."

Is the instill temporary or only the effect? When it doesn't work anymore, does it free the space? I would rule toward freeing because I want young magi to use their talisman early and replace the effect 7 years later rather than use charged items. But having lazy magi throw away their quick-and-dirty work makes sense too.

Ah, interesting point.

Another thing in favor of freeing the space: it makes it more likely that greater enchanted devices will be made. Generally they are a very poor way to go with the exception of talismans. Lesser enchanted devices usually do what you need more efficiently. There are some cases where you could invest something in a few seasons but the level is so high that it makes the one-season enchantment prohibitive, and I can think of a few other times. But generally speaking if you can make it with a lesser enchanted device you should, even if it takes extra seasons of learning.