Muto Corpus for glowing ability - possible without ignem?

A maga wants to explore some caves and doesn't have any kind of torch or lantern that would help illuminate her path. These are pitch black caves, so even eyes of the cat aren't enough for her to see. However, if she could create a little light, eyes of the cat could take over from there. Unfortunately she is terrible at Creo Ignem, so instead of creating light directly, she wants to use her Muto Corpus and Animal abilities to give her a firefly-like bioluminescence.

First question: Can this spell be designed without Creo and ignem requisites? I am hoping it can, and my rationale for believing it can is that fireflies aren't magical, so they should just be animal in form and not need any special elemental requisites. If you turn into a fish, do you need an aquam requisite to breathe water? I don't think so.

I would like to know what the storyguides would say about this.

Second question: If this can be done, would changing the maga in this way be along the lines of "giving a minor ability", resulting in a very low level spell, or would it necessarily be along the lines of "changing a part of her into a land animal", resulting in a much much higher level spell?

Actually changing human to fish does have Aquam requisite and human to bird has Auram requisite. Human to firefly would have ignem requisite. Sorry to deprive you. Still, eyes of the cat lasts sun so cast it and then spont a level 4-5 CrIg spell (Create light: Personal, concentration, ind) so mage glows in dark (lamp without flame is 10 for touch so to make self glow is only a 5)

Where does it say that changing human to fish needs aquam requisite and changing human to bird needs auram requisite? I cannot find that in the MuCo guidelines of 5th edition.

My maga has a creo deficiency (bad idea, but what did i know when i was creating the character) and very low scores in creo and ignem. I don't think I would ever be able to spont palm of flame.

I'd be fine with it if the maga was turning herself into a firefly, or could convince me in some way that she could turn part of herself into part of a firefly (like turning her eyes into the eyes of a cat).

On the whole however, I would rule that you cannot use Muto Corpus to make yourself bioluninescent simply because the concept, as such, is not one that the character would have. It's as much player vs character knowledge as a D&D Barbarian making a crude gunpower rifle because his player just watched that episode of classic Star Trek.

Well, fireflies exist all around the world, though I don't know exactly if they were around europe in the 1200s.

Eyes of the Cat is something I used to wonder about: why isn't the spell level higher, shouldn't the base be 10 for animal transformation and then +1 mag for part, plus extra for duration? Then I was told that it targeted the senses, so now i wonder why it doesn't have a vision target. Oh well.

It is what is known as a "Legacy Spell", spell names and definitions that came from an earlier edition, with the parameters finagled in such a way so that they match the original TeFo & Level. For Eyes of the Cat, you are right. It should be Target-Part. But not Vision. Your eyes change, granting you the natural powers of a cat to see in dim light. Your actual Vision never changed, the effects of seeing in the dark are an incidental effect of changing your eyes. There are no new sensations that are not already there, and nothing supernatural about the perceptions. Just the eyes.

Yes, I'll accept that fireflies exist but the idea of bioluminesence does not. It would be like a magus creating a spell based on the germ theory of disease or a spell to modify DNA. These aren't concepts that are generally available in the setting.

Eyes of the Cat changes you to give you a minor ability, in this case enhanced night vision, though I see your point.

The spell is confusing, but it is built right.

It is built using the level 2 MuCo guideline "change someone to give them a minor ability", in this case the ability the character gets is the ability to see better in the dark. The fact that his eyes change to look like a cat is almost entirely cosmetic. Your character could easily invent a different spell "Eyes of the Night Assassin" of the same level that still let the character see better in the dark, but didn't change his eyes to look like those of a cat (and wouldn't need an Animal requisite either).

You could also perhaps build a similar effect using the MuCo 10 guideline (change into a land animal) with a Part target to change his eyes into those of a cat. But that would be an entirely different spell, and it would be higher magnitude obviously.

I would have no problem with the magus making himself glow. Call it Inner Radiance of the Angelic Host and there you go: angels are radiant after all. The concept is not that weird nor unknown in Mythic Europe and I find it a good solution. Make it Sun duration (+2 magnitudes) so it is useful, though. Having to keep concentration is problematic if you want to do something else as well.

Base 3: create light equivalent to torchlight
Sun +2

You can probably spont this one, regardless of your magus being a total moron when it comes to Ignem. LKeep trying until you achieve it. PLenty of time to recover and enter the caves :slight_smile:

Make sure you do not need to hide during this period!!! :stuck_out_tongue:

Plan B would be to make a portable Circle/Rng spell to create torchlight. The effect would be higher since you'll need Ring/Circle and touch, though.


Problem that he has is that he has deficient Creo so 1/2 total, low creo and ignem. Since it is spont, there is another 1/2 to total so basically he gets 1/4 the casting total for effect.

He might try eyes of the cat first. Then Create light equal to moonlight on himself for either concentration or sun. This way he has minimal light and that his eyes of cat can turn into decent amount of vision.

For Concentration: you have CrIg 2 (base 1, concentration +1)
For sun, it goes up to 3. These require stamina+Creo+ignem+aura of 8 or 12 respectively for him.

Plenty of time here: Cast., If do not succeed, cast again. If fail again, rest. Rinse and repeat until your Cr+Ig+roll is 20+ and you get the effect running

If you are already using eyes of the cat you can go with a lower (moonlight) luminescence (base 1), making the effect level 3. That means that with a casting total of 12 you have enough to see for a whole Sun duration. Easy and fairly easy, even being a total nerdie guy in casting CrIg effects :slight_smile:



Well ok, I guess i give up on the bioluminescence. I suppose that, since they didn't know why fireflies glowed, they would probably consider it magical and so it would have ignem properties.

I didn't realize it was only base 1 to create moonlight, so yeah I think it is very possible to emit enough light for eyes of the cat.

On another note, let me just caution everyone not to take a Creo deficiency. It's not too much of a loss to avoid Creo spells (though sad to pass up healing and fire), but realize that it makes your longevity ritual lab totals suck, not to mention the distillation of vim vis. I would recommend maybe a Muto deficiency if you really want one.

You save up and hire a Co or Cr specialist (Verditious perhaps) to make your longevity potion for you. Very few can rival a CrCo Specialist for making potions.

Someone's 4th Edition roots are showing :smiley:. Birds and fish are now governed entirely by Animal, no mucking with Aq or Au required (see the MuCo spell guidelines, p.132)

You can do it, but it requires a different way of thinking about spells. Eyes of the Cat lets you more or less see in the dark anyway, and if you need to see in pitch dark, Intellego has options for you as well.

I guess now wouldn't be the best time to bring up my Intelligo deficiency -- just kidding! But seriously... I just thought the glowy spell was fun. I should have just made a poll asking if people thought ignem was necessary for it.

Yes, necessary, and perfectly feasible. As said, you need a casting total of just 12 before division to achieve it :slight_smile: It is just a CrIg(Co)3 spell after all



I think you may design your glowing spell on the scheme of the Eyes of the Cat.
MuCo(An)5. You will simply borrow the minor ability of the fireflies.
Yes, the spell is buggy but why to modify if it is official?

"Eyes of the Cat" has the cosmetic effect of making your eyes gleam like a cat, but the real effect is "alter sense" - and since senses are a property of the whole person (T: Ind) it doesn't need T: Part.
Yes, uif you only wanted to make their eyes gleam like a cat, without granting a sense, you would need T:Part.

Why does the spell need the An requisite if the appearance of the magic eyes are only cosmetic? Cosmetic effects don't need requisites. See p.115

its because of the sense given.
animals can see in the dark, not humans.