Officers Amendment vote/discussion

I suggest making the vote 2/3rds majority.

Viscaria opens her mouth several times and starts to speak before stopping, and then looking at the amendment again. "So this says nothing about how we're supposed to fulfill these responsibilities, nor what the recompensation is for holding office. And thank you for the vote of confidence, Isen, but I really don't see how I have any business interacting with turb as a Deputy Imperator would.

"As for Scutatius and Aedilis....I am quite confused by that division of labor. I thought the Scutatius was just in charge of designing and using magical defenses, while the procurement of lab texts and assignation of creation labors was to by my...I mean, the Aedilis's role. In other words..."

She pulls out two of her stubby silver casting wands, and a small pot filled with sand. Using the edge of the pot as a ring, she casts a simple cantrip.
(Rego Terram base 1 +2 Voice +2 Ring = 5, Rego 10 + Terram 18 + Rego Aura 10 = 38/5 > 5, no fatigue, autosuceed)

Princeps - decides if/when Meetings. Any job not office
Imperator - defense by turb
Scutatius - defense by automated magics
Villicus - mortal relations
Aedilis - vis harvest/inventory, item make/inventory
Diocetes - all the harvest/make/inventory

Then she says, "...with the Deputy-ness of it all already built in.

Theraphosa replies, "Yes, we'll get to granting specific powers with future amendments. But perhaps we should include something for now about how each Office is responsible for fulfilling those duties by bringing them up at Council. A sort of except where specifically granted by future amendment clause? And as for renumeration, merely holding the office doesn't get you anything. Duties performed for the good of the covenant provide renumeration, as originally stipulated, and the role of the Officer is to make sure there are more duties aplenty -- at least for now. If the Officer wishes to fulfill some of those duties herself, then she can submit her efforts as duties suitable for reward at council meetings -- again, at least until otherwise amended."

(OOC: the key point here is to double-check that the Offices fit with the tasks we assumed they meant -- for example, I thought Aedilis would also be responsible for deciding what should get made and figure out who should make it. I, as a player, do not actually care if that job goes to the Aedilis or Scutatius. Likewise, I could go either way on the Deputy-by-office or Deputy-by-assignation thing. I just thought we had discussed something else.)

((That might work, I just don't want it to be too difficult to keep an office filled. Might invoke more politicking if there's a candidate who's qualified but not necessarily popular, or if there are two equally popular candidates vying for the same office.))

[color=blue]"I don't think how an officer fulfills their office should be codified in the Charter, but rather should be left to the officer according to his own style. For example, I'm sure that I would handle things as Princeps rather differently than Korvin, say, would. If the charter told us how to do our job, than neither of us would be comfortable enough to do our job as effectively as we would like. And, as to the compensation? There's no compensation for the office of Princeps now, merely compensation for the performance of individual tasks according to the will of the Council. I see no reason to change that now. If we would, however, how would we decide how to disperse it? Assign officers an extra share of the annual surplus, and deputies an extra half-share?"

Fiona leans in to examine the image. [color=blue]"So, the Imperator would ultimately be responsible for covenant defenses as a whole, but would focus on the mundane defenses himself, while the Scutiatus would be more or less his lieutenant charged with the magical side of it. And the Diocetes would be in charge of maintaining all our goods, people, and property, with the Aedilis acting like his steward of the magical. That about right?"

She nods. [color=blue]"I think that would work just as well."

Theraphosa hisses at Viscaria for bringing the subject up. "Do not think on it for now. Let the system grow organically. You cannot build a web until you know what walls you anchor to. In the future, we will amend the charter to grant a specific office a specific responsibility, and at that time we can decide whether to recompensate them for an ongoing duty."

((We forgot one!))

IIRC, we were talking about it working out like this:

Fiona - Princeps - decides if/when Meetings. Any job not office
Alexei - Imperator - defense by turb
Isen - Scutatius - defense by automated magics
Traquilina - Villicus - mortal relations
Viscaria - Aedilis - vis harvest/inventory, item make/inventory
Traquilina - Diocetes - all the harvest/make/inventory
Korvin - Interpres - magi relations

It looks like the Interpres duties falls under the Princeps banner. Would it need to be a separate office, or would it be a deputy's office under the Princeps?

They're all deputy offices under the Princeps, as far as I'm concerned. All I'm saying is, from the previous discussion in the Defense thread, this is the complete list of titles and nominal appointments that we came up with before moving to this thread. If you want to leave magi relations to the Princeps, that's fine by me. Likewise, we should doublecheck with gerg as to which post he's actually interested in filling before creating an office for it. it's kinda for a metagaming aspect, which I'm not complaining about. It just didn't occur to me. I'm fine with the Interpres office.

So, when do we want the new officers' dealio to go into effect? (Basically, it gives us seasons that were assigned to Princeps duty that we can spend on other stuff, I think.)

I think we should consider Alexei for deputy Villicus as he has the Gentle Gifted

Alexei shrugs and nods. "I have always had a good rapport with people, not just my Gift, but my subtle magic and pleasant side effects." then he makes a bit of a smirk. "Then there's the fact that I sometimes get caught up in perhaps foolish endeavors. As deputy I could enforce or enact the plans of the Primary and thus stay on task."

[color=magenta]"I would like to think that I would serve Mons Electi well as Villicus," Tranquillina affirms. [color=magenta]"I have worked hard over the years to have a better-than-average understanding of power structures, alliances, and negotiations; I can claim passing knowledge of the laws of mundane society and those of the Church. I also have a variety of spells that help me overcome the uneasiness people feel around me, as well as to force deliberations to go more smoothly. What I do not have is the ability to simply meet mundanes on their own terms, without complications; Alexei would be an excellent sodalis to fill this void, in many interactions that arose from our plans. Thank you, Korvin, for the suggestion - and Alexei, I would certainly welcome this opportunity to work more closely with you, should you accept."

[color=magenta]"As for Diocetes," she shrugs, returning to her seat, [color=magenta]"I am not sure that I have any particular qualifications that are superior to yours, save perhaps a bit of experience at Nigrasaxa. I am certainly willing to serve in that role as well, if nobody else seeks it. In troth, I have little to contribute to our defenses or resources, other than a bit of magical furtiveness and the pair of spells I have discussed with Isen; we might as well put me to use elsewhere."

Isen replies
It seems better to me that those concerned with specific items are in charge of them, as initially outlined by Fiona.
For example, the Imperator might want to acquire enchanted armors or items to enhance the Turb. It seems logical to me that he might be allowed to seek these.
Similarly, the Aegis falls under the purview of the Scutatius, even if he isn't the one who casts it. But he should make sure we have the vis, and I can see him acquiring books for Mastering that ritual. The same goes for Watching Wards, for example, or summoning/binding magical creatures to assist in our defense.
On the other hand, neither would care about enchantments designed to better our living conditions or ensure faster travel.

I don't care for compensation, though. This is something we must do, so do it we will.

And useless.
The goal of having separate offices is to leave people free to focus on their tasks. Having them be subservant defeats the whole idea.
I see it rather as the 3 branches of duties. Martial, Diplomatic, and Logistics. Focused each time on the mundane and the magical side of things. It quites make sense, in my opinion.

Alexei pats Tranquillina'a hand and smiles. "It would be my pleasure to assist in this. We can discuss later what plans you have and how I might be a part of those plans."

Based on timing in the Tribunal Thread, this conversation seems to have been started by Theraphosa in a reaction to Tranquilina's arrival, and the system didn't take very long to put into place. Call it, the season after her arrival?

Presumably, this would be 1223.3 then.

[color=magenta]"Oh!" Tranquillina interjects unexpectedly. [color=magenta]"That makes so much sense, Isen, the way you framed the various offices."

Isen turns towards the newcomer
Thank you.

"Shall we replace the charter amendment wording with these divisions, and remove the specifics we've included so far? Then, whenever a specific task comes up, we can move to amend the charter to include that task or a general responsibility based on that task. Do we still want a Princeps to adjudicate Council Meetings, or will that get covered by the Interpres? "

The sand in the clay pot shifts.

Imperator - Martial, mundane
Scutatius - Martial, magical

Villicus - Diplomatic, mundane
Interpres - Diplomatic, magical

Aedilis - Logistics, magical
Diocetes - Logistics, mundane

We still wants a princeps, says Isen. His role simply shall be more limited that before. His role is to adjudicate council meetings, while the Interpres has to manage our diplomatic ties to the hermetic world.

Fiona nods approvingly. [color=blue]"I move that we amend the charter as discussed, with the officer descriptions that Viscaria outlined, while keeping the office of Princeps."

Viscaria seconds the motion.

Tranquillina touches the side table on which the amendment lies, and creates the image of the two words AYE and NAY in the grain of the tabletop, well separated from each other. ((Base 1, +1 complexity, +1 Touch, +1 Diam = level 4. She can just barely do this without fatigue. Finesse total: Int 3 + Finesse 2 + stress die 5 = 10.)) Those who pay attention might notice that the spell lasts longer than a quarter of an hour before fading.

She then takes out an old Roman coin and places it on the table near the word AYE.