Old Variant Parma Rules, Posted By Request

Alternative Magic Resistance Rules for AM5

Here's my first cut at different MR rules for AM5. I think these are ok but I'll probably need another go at it. Please bear with me if something here doesn't quite make sense or work. After all, this is my first try.

If you are happy with the existing rules for MR, this post may not be for you.

If you are not, then these might do the trick. Or not.

Either way, please note that these rules are neither Wrong nor Right, and are simply the result of my failing yet another "Get a Life" saving throw.

There are no actual medieval sources describing the kind of Magic Resistance used in Ars Magica; "real" magic- -including protection- -has a very different feel, usually involving theurgy or "natural" correspondences. However, various medieval sources discuss how the world work, or at least the workings of the world, or at least implicitly make these assumptions. The sources themselves vary, especially in application, but the underpinnings of "the Western tradition" already exist at this time, forming a remarkably consistent and common foundation for apparently antagonistic philosophies and subcultures. Thus, more than one "reasonable" set of Magic Resistance rules can be derived, and such rules systems may differ greatly depending on how Magic Resistance is framed and which sources are emphasized. A remarkable amount of scholarship goes into Ars Magica, more than I know. My own knowledge base is more limited, less diverse and perhaps even not quite as appropriate. I believe, nevertheless, that I have something coherent here.

Canonically, Magic Resistance acts as a shield that prevents magic from impinging on a resisting entity. The primary implicit question becomes, "what is magic?" The motion of Rego is magic, and anything sustained by magic is magic. The secondary implicit questions becomes "what is 'impinging' ?" This vision of Magic Resistance isn't wrong- -in fact, it's official. (My perspective on the canonical view is, of course, not official or canonical or even necessarily correct.)

In these rules, Magic Resistance acts as a shield against acts of magic that involve a resisting entity. The primary implicit question becomes "what is an act of magic?" The secondary implicit question becomes "what the heck do you mean by 'involve'?" I believe these rules address that issue.

In the end, however, all this is handwaving. I really want Magic Resistance to work differently than it does canonically, and improve (in my mind) gameplay. Medievally acceptable philosophical underpinnings are nice, especially if they help maintain the internal consistency of the rules, but are not my lodestone.


I have three major goals for these magic resistance rules; the others fall out from these:

  1. Epic battles between shapeshifter wizards should be reasonable and possible; Parma should not protect against this. A wizard who turns into a hound to chase down a Faerie Fox should not have to worry about bouncing off Magic Resistance. I don't know if any myths or folktales between 500CE and 1500CE support my penchant for effective shapeshifting, but I think it feels right for Mythic Europe.

  2. Enchanted swords should be effective. Excalibur should be more effective than a lesser sword in every respect.

  3. "Clever tricks" like circumventing magic resistance by destroying the dirt beneath the target's feet, maneuvering an anvil over his head and then letting go, or trapping him within a giant block of stone created all around him (giving him only the tiniest amount of room to move!) should not be permitted. To me, these seem artificial consequences of game rules rather than a reflection of how magic in a medieval setting ought to work. (I found this sort of magic resistance annoying in Robert Jordan's "The Fires of Heaven" and completely out of place here.)

Magic Resistance

A) What happens when Magic Resistance works?

Whenever an effect is resisted successfully, it dissipates completely and immediately, without affecting the resisting entity. Previous consequences of the dissipated effect may endure or go away exactly according to the rules for a spell that ends. Other supernatural effects are not affected. If the resisted effect was generated by a magic item, the item does not lose its enchantment but does need to be retriggered.


If a magical effect that targets a group is resisted by one member of the group, it dissipates completely and immediately, affecting no one in the group.

When an ongoing magical effect is resisted due to some new interaction between it and another entity, the entire magical effect is dissipated.

Design Notes:

Veterans of Ars Magica will probably notice that this version of Magic Resistance is more powerful than any previous, canonical Magic Resistance. Magical effects are not only resisted but unravelled! This all-or-nothing approach completely eliminates strange but 'clever' magical effects, such as:

 Creating a huge block of stone around a magus, not caring if he resists because he remains completely surrounded by the stone.

 Using magic to hurl acid or a contact poison at a magus' head, not caring if he resists because when he does it will naturally land on his shoulder.

It also seems appropriate for powerful beings to extend accidental protection in this manner. Thus, when a saintly person lives in a city, his True Faith protects the entire city against supernatural effects that target the whole city, even when he doesn't have time to pray for a miracle.

B) When does Magic Resistance apply?

Magic Resistance applies at the moment when an entity possesses a Magic Resistance score greater than or equal to the Penetration of a supernatural effect, the supernatural effect does not originate from the entity, and at least one of the following conditions is true:

  1. The entity or part of the entity is the target or part of the target of the supernatural effect.

  2. The entity or part of the entity is the indirect object or part of the indirect object of a Rego effect

  3. At the moment the supernatural effect would come into being, the target of the effect would either immediately or eventually and inevitably touch or act upon the entity through natural action in the absence of any intervention as a result of the supernatural effect.

  4. The target of the supernatural effect is explicitly defined in relation to the entity or part of the entity.

If an entity fails to resist a supernatural effect, it does not get another chance to resist unless its Magic Resistance score increases above the score that failed, and Magic Resistance would otherwise apply.

At the end of its duration, a supernatural effect no longer exists to be resisted.

Probably Not Obvious:

The appearance of an entity is not the entity. A memory of an entity is not the entity. Affecting these do not necessarily involve the entity, even if the memory or image is explicitly "of so and so."

Intellego effects are only resistable under condition #4 or under condition #1. Intellego spells with targets such as "Hearing" or "Vision" do not include any entity, since these targets only include species, not the entities themselves. Knowing something about an entity does not satisfy Condition #3, because nothing has necessarily touched him or affected him. However, many Intellego spells that discover things about an entity will trigger Condition #1.

Any effect cast at a range of Arcane Connection or that requires an Arcane Connection is resistable by an entity thus Arcanely Connected (always #4; possibly #1, #2 or #3).

Things that are created or sustained with magic are not necessarily resistable
The inevitable side effects of magic are always resistable, but not the side effects of the side effects
Magic Resistance is not bounded by distance or time

Design Notes:

I think we better go to some examples first.

C) How does Magic Resistance work in practice?

A magus uses CrAn to create a swarm of wasps, which immediately attack the magus! Not resistable.

A magus uses CrAn to create a swarm of wasps, which immediately attack his sodales. Not resistable.

After he and his friends recover, the magus uses Cr(Re)An to create a swarm of wasps under his control. He sends them to attack a Magical Bear- -who can resist. The wasps vanish if the resistance succeeds.

A magus uses CrAn to create a dragon. Same as the wasps.

A magus uses CrAn to create a dragon, and immediately casts a ReAn on the dragon to control it. The dragon can resist the ReAn. The dragon fails its resistance, and the magus sends it to attack another dragon. The other dragon can immediately resist the ReAn. If it succeeds, only the ReAn is dispelled, not the CrAn, leaving the magus in the presence of a dragon for the duration of the CrAn or the magus' life, whichever comes first. Uh, oh.

A magus sharpens a sword using ReTe. The sword is not resistable.

A magus sharpens a sword to an unnatural degree using MuTe. The sword is not resistable.

A magus uses Cr(Mu, Re)Ig(Te) to create a sword of burning lava that does not harm its wielder. When the wielder picks up the sword, he can resist unless he chooses not to; he is resisting the Rego portion of the effect. If he resists successfully, the sword dissipates without harming him. If he does not resist, either because he did not try to or because he failed, he may use the sword; the target of the sword cannnot resist.

A magus uses ReTe to throw a boulder at a target. The target can resist. If he succeeds, the boulder is not thrown.

A magus uses ReMe to force a knight to attack a dragon. The knight can resist. If he fails, the dragon can resist when the spell is cast! If either resistance succeeeds, the spell never comes into effect.

A magus uses CrMe to enrage a knight, and more CrMe to create unsavory memories of a dragon. The knight can resist each CrMe. Even if he fails, the dragon does not get to resist if the knight chooses to attack.

A magus uses a ReMe ritual to enslave a knight. The knight can resist. The magus commands the knight to attack a dragon. The dragon can resist immediately. If the dragon succeeds, the spell ends, freeing the knight.

A magus uses CrAu to strike a Faerie Lord with lightning. The Faerie Lord can resist.

A magus uses CrAu to strike a group of Faeries with lightning. They can resist. If one succeeds, the lightning doesn't happen.

A magus uses CrAu to create a storm around a Faerie Lord. The Faerie Lord can resist. If he succeeds, no storm.

A magus uses CrAu to create rainclouds above a Faerie Lord, to ruin a Faerie party. The Faerie Lord can resist. If he succeeds, no rainclouds, no rain.

A magus uses CrAu to create rainclouds above a Faerie Lord, not realizing the Faerie Lord is present. The Faerie Lord can resist. If he succeeds, no rainclouds, no rain.

A magus uses CrAu to create rainclouds explicitly "two miles away from that guy." That guy can resist. If he succeeds, no rainclouds or rain.

A magus uses CrAu to create a storm that can be resisted, as above, but no one resists. The storm then takes its natural course, uncontrolled by the magus, and veers toward the Faerie Lord's domain. The Faerie Lord cannot resist the storm, nor any effects of the storm such as lightning or rain. If the magus used a separate Rego effect to move the storm over the Faerie Lord, the Faerie Lord could have resisted, resulting in the termination of the Rego effect but not the CrAu effect, and the storm not moving. If the Rego effect were part of the storm, the spell would end the moment the Faerie Lord successfully resisted.

A magus uses MuCo(An) to transform his grogs into lions. The grogs can resist. After not resisting, they attack some Faeries- -who cannot resist. Later that day, when they encounter a dragon, the lion-grogs are afraid to attack so the magus PeMe's their fear- -which the grogs can resist- -and after failing their to resist they attack the dragon- -who does not get to resist the grogs. The battle isn't going well, so the magus transforms the grogs into dragons. Resistance occurs or does not as for the lions.

A magus uses PeTe to obiliterate the ground beneath a demon's feet. The demon can resist; the ground is not destroyed if the demon succeeds.

A magus uses MuAn to transform himself into a mole. He can resist, but chooses not to. He burrows deep beneath a house where a demon lives. The demon does not resist. The magus then uses PeTe to obliterate the earth beneath the house, causing the demon to fall. The demon can resist. If the magus had transformed himself into a giant mole and then undermined the foundations, the demon would have nothing to resist.

A magus casts PeTe(Co, An, He, Aq) to create a pit of doom on a (hithertofore) flat plain, duration Sun, that will destroy anything that steps inside! A Faerie tries to fill the pit with earth: The earth could resist but not the Faerie. The Faerie jumps into the pit and can resist. If he succeeds, he is not harmed and his stuff is not harmed and the spell dissipates, but the pit remains.

A magus creates a Pit of Doom as above. Then, using a specially designed ReVi(whatever) effect, moves the pit of doom beneath a Faerie. The Faerie resists the ReVi effect, which dissipates if the resistance succeeds. The PoD remains where it was.

A magus uses PeAn to obliterate some feather pillows beneath a falling Faerie. The Faerie does not get to resist.

A magus uses ReAn to move some feather pillows away from beneath a falling Faerie. The Faerie does not get to resist.

A magus uses MuAn(Te) to transform the feather pillows beneath a falling Faerie into sharp iron spikes. The Faerie can resist, whether or not the magus knows he is there.

A magus uses MuAn(Te) to transform the feather pillows beneath a hovering Faerie into sharp iron spikes. The Faerie does not get to resist. A sudden, natural downdraft blows the Faerie onto the spikes. The Faerie cannot resist.

A magus uses ReAu to shove a Faerie onto iron spikes. The Faerie can resist.

A magus uses CrIm to create an illusion of a Faerie. The Faerie cannot resist, whether or not he is there to see it.

A magus uses PeIm to make a Faerie invisible. The Faerie can resist.

A magus uses CrIm to create an illusion that touches a Faerie. The Faerie can resist.

Using an Arcane Connection to a lake, a magus casts an Intellego spell to see everything in the lake. The lake itself can resist but none of its inhabitants.

Using an Arcane Connection to a lake, a magus casts a PeAq spell to destroy the lake. The lake and everything in it, on it and touching it can resist.

Design Notes:

Magical actions are resisted, not magical effects. Rego may seem like a special case, but every use of Rego is itself a magical action, even though the magical effect is ongoing. I had originally preferred to have Magic Resistance triggered by condition #3 go into effect only when "in the presence" of the resisting entity, imagining a knight magically compelled to attack a saint (yes, yes, not Saint(tm) but Generic Holy Person Otherwise Confused with a Saint(tm)) making a journey bent on destruction, only to lose the impulse in the presence of successful Magic Resistance. However, I could not find a satisfactory definition of "presence" that did not require all sorts of special cases. In the end, the simplicity of having Magic Resistance trigger the moment it involved a target worked best, mirroring the simplicity of having Magic Resistance end the effect that triggered it.

Intent is also not relevant. In Condition #4, it is not the intent of the effect's originator that matters. Using an entity as the focal point for the effect involves the entity, even if it is not the actual target. The entity resists as soon as it is involved.

The magical action that creates a magical sword does not involve the entity at whom the sword is swung. Rather, it is the perfectly mundane action of swinging the sword that involves the entity. Magic Resistance does not apply, because there is no magical action to resist. Similarly, a wizard who transforms himself into a hound has performed an action that involves only himself. The spell that transformed him can be dispelled with a PeVi effect, but he himself is irresistable (from an MR perspective; a magus who transforms himself into a Golden Retriever still enjoys the adverse effects of the Gift and of being an anachronism).

Perhaps the least clear area of these rules involves Condition #3, but even this is tractable. Inevitable actions of a magical action are considered part of the action for the purposes of Magic Resistance. These "inevitable" side effects can sometime be averted through some other action, but the entity affected by the side effect is already involved. The examples involving the feather pillow may shed light on this matter. Transforming the pillows into spikes that will inevitably affect the Faerie involves the Faerie. Destroying or moving the pillows may prove unfortunate for the Faerie, but the Faerie is not targeted by the action, the Faerie is not the indirect object of the action, and the Faerie is in no way acted upon by the target of the action. The involvement of the Faerie is too indirect to matter. Destroying the earth beneath a building, causing it and its inhabitants to fall, acts on the inhabitants: the supernatural effect caused the inhabitants to fall.

my, you must not like rego...


In would state it more like "Magic Resistance causes acts of magic that involve a resisting entity to fail." It isn't shielding against the acts of magic, it dissipates the magic.

Protection against acts of magic is interesting. It does leave magi vulnerable to Poison Made Into Water, or a dragon to Tree Made Into Sheep. It also means a magus cannot enter a room warded by a ring of Ignem (just like he'd be hit by an fire-wearthed sword). But it also means that magi are not immune to Pink-Dotted Swords or any of that nonsense - I think that overall it is a good idea.

I'm less happy about the magic being dissipated. In some cases it works, in others it doesn't. I picture a magus withstanding a storm of gushing hellfire, not the hellfire sweeping over the army he's within to no effect. On the other hand, I also picture the demon shattering the ward meant to protect against it, not walking through it. A saint protecting his city from a curse or a faerie lord protecting his kingdom are nice; a magus protecting his covenant less so. I think generally personal protection works best, with wards, saints, and faerie lords being an exception :slight_smile:

Plenty of useful thoughts..

I agree with objective 1 and 2 at least, 3 has the advantage of rewarding original thinking.

Completely disagree, and from what i know of thinking at the time, the "paradigm" probably wouldnt agree with you either.
This would in effect remove the need for magical shielding whenever someone aims at groups with just a single character with high MR. Bad idea i think.

Im not sure i like that either, but will have to look at it more.

Yes it does. SOMETIMES. NOT from every type of MR though. And in many cases probably not at "full power" externally.

Agreed, the wasps are not magical in them self, unless created specifically so with a Vi req.

Since dragon #2 was never the target of a spell, no it cant resist it. This would create the situation that you have entities resisting things on behalf of others, dreadful idea in extention i think. And i have a hunch that any munchkin worth his name can come up with a way to misuse it to the maximum.
Like having an angel act as his MR shield or something. Players tend to be very inventive and this rule seems like one of those perfect to abuse. (similar to the above 1 person in a group resist, spell doesnt happen at all)

Certainly not.

Unless the sharpness is magical in itself, agreed, not resistable.

As such a sword MUST have active magics to stay together at all, its a magical effect and probably should be resisted.

Now this is where it gets really troublesome, lets say the magus aims this only at ONE person within a group, the one with zero or little MR, and on its path before and/or after hitting the target, there are other targets with high MR...?
Id say the boulder is thrown regardless but all who is in its way has a chance to resist it. Otherwise we´re back to rules abuse by the bucketful, and another set of "tricks" like the ones you didnt like.

Not a chance, the knight can resist a spell cast on him, the dragon cant. At the time, the dragon could be around the world or in arcadia or whatever, meaning you in essence gets a MR effect that defies one or several limits of magic.

Thats another tricky one, but i would rather say that if the lord resists, no rain will enter his "aura of influence"(basically the same idea as yours mentioned about a saint automatically providing some cover for the city s/he is in).
A faerie lord would probably have a rather big range of influence "at home" but might just be very local in the mundane world.


Contradicts this one:

Contradicts this one:

Because the PeMe effect is directly to have the grogs be effective against the dragon, meaning the dragon is again the secondary inferred target of the result of the effect.

Nah that probably shouldnt be resisted either, thats entertainment. :smiling_imp:
Also, such a ruling would otherwise give even more preference to Creo, as things created are not resisted.

Those two contradict each other.

Such a sword hits MR, pink dot doesnt penetrate, but the sword isnt under an active enchantment that affects the sword as a whole so its not magical, just the tiny dot, and doesnt even have to penetrate at all.

If you make the sword flaming, the "flaming" part is magical and is resisted, the sword isnt, nor any heat produced by the magic effect.
Ie., only any ACTIVE magics are resisted by MR.
Thereabouts is how we handle it at least.

Very much agreed!


Nicely put!

What do you mean?

I prefer it the other way. If two wizards and their cohorts face off, I like having the magi stand forward and fight it out rather than snipe at the grogs. It has a pleasantly cinematic feel to it. It also becomes even more worthwhile for a magus to be the center of an adventuring group. Parma should be awesome!

I sort of imagine the storm of gushing hellfire differently from you, with the magus holding his staff high and shielding his army as some diabolist curses in frustration, not realizing that the duke and the magus would join in common cause...



Why would you use the Rego technique with this sytem, all effects on those that would normally not resist it can be negated, using Rego to throw something at someone else can be resisted, even though you no longer actively control it, and when your parma negates all that touches you, you don't even need wards! I myself would not find this a very interesting style of play, even though cynematic to some extent.


IIRC--it's been years since I wrote this stuff--I very much wanted this kind of effect.

I only have one set of rules for MR. It all works the same way. I see that you prefer something different.

I very much want MR to operate at full power, even for a group. I want magi to be out in the world, among people. I want to encourage that. Losing 3 magnitudes from Parma to protect someone else hardly achieves my purpose.

This version of Magic Resistance works on acts of magic. Resisted magic fails. As a natural consequence, magic that affects a group fails completely, thereby not affecting the group.

I also manage to avoid situations where one magus uses ReTe to hurl a huge boulder at a group that includes a magus, and I have to figure out which part of the group is affected before the boulder comes to a halt barely touching the magus. That's canon, and I'd rather not.

Under this system, they are not resisted even if they are created with a Vi requisite.

Under this system, it can resist! Using ReAn to attack a dragon with another dragon is no different from using ReTe to hurl a boulder at the dragon. (And no different from using ReAn to throw the dragon at another dragon. :slight_smile: )

I don't see this as abuse, but as desirable.

Canonically, it is resisted.

Canonically, it is. In this system, no. Having a wizard provide knights with enchanted armaments to fight a supernatural menace is something that I actively like.

What trick do you have in mind? This system has the boulder fail because someone was in the way accidentally, intent doesn't matter here. So the magus casts a spell and nothing happens. Any trick involves defense, and I'm ok with defense.

What limit is defied? This just places another limit on magic, a limit of resistance.

The dragon resists because it is the object of a Rego effect.

I didn't start off with these rules; I originally thought about "areas of influence" and "personal presence" and so on. It gave me a few things, but complicated a lot more. Simplifying loses a few nice effects, but gives me some good ones too!

(Note that a tree does not get it's dryad's MR when a Flambeau burns it, even though killing the tree will kill the dryad.)

How? In the second example, no one was able to resist the storm, so the storm begins. The storm now moves naturally into the FL's domain. The Faerie Lord has no act of magic to resist, and therefore does not.

In the second example, the other dragon is the object of a Rego effect. In the first, the magus has an intention of harming the dragon, but the magic does not inevitably affect the dragon. No act of magic will inevitably affect the dragon. Even with their fear removed, the grogs retain free agency and move themselves. Now, if the magus used ReMe to force the grogs to attack the dragon, the dragon would resist.

I don't find that entertaining but tacky; YMMV. Things created are resistable if they inevitably act on a target. Creating a boulder on top of the demon fails the same way as destroying the ground beneath.

No, they don't. In the first example, the magus' act of magic will cause inevitable harm to the faerie under the natural course of things. Resisted. The second example differs.

Magic acts can be resisted in this variant; magic effects cannot.

Thanks for reposting this. I feel that the Forums are ready for some Berklist level ponderings :slight_smile:

And the Berklist is down again.

Anyway, just to let you know, I don't plan on using these rules (and I don't know to what extent you use them). However, musings on Magic Resistance are always entertaining :smiley:

Further, it is also a good to discuss variants. I myself have some MR varients. 1) Wards do not have to penetrate, 2) I use a "winking" Parma. In that, you swing your Edge of the Razor Blade of Virulent Flame sword at me, my Parma may render the edge and the flame ineffective, but the sword still hits me. Thus I ignore pink dots too. Silly, just silly.

I like the concept of a "winking" parma :stuck_out_tongue: We in fact use that same rule, but simply disregarded the naming of the HR :slight_smile:



lol, the "winking" label I picked up from the Berklist when I was criticized for my heresy :slight_smile:

Now I can't break the image of parma winking at the sword, and the sword winking back and making a thumbs up sign before slamming into the stomach of the poor magus.... :laughing:


Magus Adamus gives magus Barbadus a glass of wine, which Barbardus drinks, trusting his MR to protect him. But the wine is actually poison turned into wine. As the effect dissipates, the poison takes affect and kills poor Barbadues. Not a great loss if you ask me - but this scenario is for some reason often used to criticize MR rules.

Faced with the Mighty dragon, magus Adamus concieves a devilish plan. He takes a mighty tree, and uses magic to turn into a sheep which he then sends to pasture before the dragon's cave. The dragon, convinced that this is the normal peasant offering, gladly gulps it. A few moments later he finds himself with a massive redwood tree bursting out of his stomach, and dies a horrible and bloody death - no resistance, as the effect didn't really involve the dragon, and at any rate the woe is caused by it ending.

Probably a few more devious schemes can be thought of. Can't think of any that would really be horrible off-hand, though.

Except it never IS the object of the effect.

Unlimited range becomes ok(limit of AC, limit of lunar sphere(not that i care about that one myself))?

Either intent matters or it does NOT.

How does the MR KNOW wether it IS inevitable or not?
In that case, its IMPOSSIBLE to know!

By your own example, if it WILL happen LATER, the target gets to resist at the point of creation. Unless the weather is specifically ALTERED, a storm created at point A will always end up at point B. Inevitable.

Who cares...

Ah, you WANT players that are invincible?

If they are created as magical beings then NOT resisting them is a BAD idea.

No you dont and no it doesnt.

If its coherent and logical in context i dont mind a few exceptions.

There are much better ways to achieve that.


I have begun to notice words in all caps or boldface...

I'm fine if you don't like this variant; it's different and not for everyone. But you seem to misunderstand how these rules work. If you have any interest in that, please notice the rule about Rego. Or perhaps the issue lies with my unfamiliar use of 'object:' The subject of a ReTe spell can be a boulder, and when the boulder is hurled at a dragon using Rego, it's fair to call the dragon the object. Technically, I suppose, the magus is the subject, the boulder is the object and the dragon is the indirect object....

Unlimited range becomes ok(limit of AC, limit of lunar sphere(not that i care about that one myself))?
No magic gains an unlimited range. Magic Resistance doesn't even gain an unlimited range, because the act of magic must first involve the entity with MR to allow the resistance. But even if MR does have an unlimited range, it still doesn't break a limit, because MR is not M.

Intention does not matter in and of itself, unless that intention causes one of the criteria for MR to apply. You might not like how the criteria work, but I think I wrote them clearly.

The MR doesn't have to know anything. How does a blade of grass know how to be green? How does a rock know how to fall?

No, no. If it will inevitably happen later, yes. A particular weather formation is hardly inevitable; indeed, it's the very examplar of not inevitable.

Hardly invincible, considering that their opponents with MR get the same benefit....


Sorry you don't like them.

I find them coherent and logical, and have not noticed an exception.




Hmm. Let's see what happens here. Adamus has used magic to transform poison into wine. Under these rules, unless the poison has MR, the poison is now wine for the duration of the spell. So far so good. Now he hands Barbadus the wine, a completely mundane action. B now has the wine. Still nothing resisted. B now drinks the wine. MR still doesn't come into play; none of the criteria have been triggered. What happens next depends upon the duration of the spell: When the spell expires and the wine reverts to poison, will there be enough of it in B for him to suffer its effects? (And does he become sober again? :slight_smile: ) So this acts the way I'd like it to.

The moral of this story is, "Don't forget to chew your food thoroughly!" :>

Yeah, this version of MR does not help the dragon in this scenario.

I find this disturbing. Does MR discriminate based on intent? How would it know it? Is MR intelligent?
Moreso, and probably first, this means that a GM will have to adjudicate a lot of cases, which may be at times difficult and penible.

The same goes for the faerie and its iron pillow. It feels as though one'll need to always ask himself what was the intent of the magic, which I find cumbersome.

As direwolf said, either intention matters, or it doesn't.

How??? Why? Can you explain it a little more?

Remember his criteria,

The magical-wine reverts to a non-magical poison once the duration ends (perhaps Concentration duration?). The supernatural effect (changing poison into wine) doesn't target the person, so #1 isn't activated. It isn't a Rego effect, so #2 isn't activated. At the moment it comes into being (when the poison turns to wine) the magus B won't inevitably drink it; that is determined way after that, out of B's free choice - hence, #3 isn't triggered. And the turning of the poison to wine isn't explicitly defined around B as the target, so #4 isn't triggered. In short, the act of turning the poison into wine doesn't really affect B (although the spell's end does), so it isn't resisted.

My favorite part of this variant, and something I am thinking of perhaps adopting, is the example of the person with True Faith whose resistance protects his whole city. Now, I don't think all resistance should work that way, I just like having that particular extra flair for the Divine. I am also thinking that not all forms of Magic Resistance operate the same. I mean, what makes Parma so superior if all forms of magic resistance work the same way? Thats what inspired me to come up with the idea that beings with a Might score have the Weak Magic Resistance (Wards) Flaw. Divine resistance should be more miraculous. The old school way, roll TF or less on a die, was unique and different, but much too weak. The new way is more formidible, but also a little bland and generic.

PS. Dire Wolf, understand that this is how we roll. COOF's like Ken and myself and others like to toss around variant ideas. Not only is it fun and enlightening, it improves your RAW skills too. And in fact, the changes from 4th to 5th began as HRs that people (who became writers and line editors) mused and discussed on the list or somewhere.