OOC: characters and covenant discussions

This will be the place to discuss character ideas and stuff about the covenant creation


I’m considering a magus of House Flambeau who focuses on earth magics. Early in his apprenticeship he meddled in the affairs of the fey and was cursed with a malediction that shrunk his body (Dwarf flaw). In addition to developing his specialty, he has also become interested in magic that may restore his form.

I'm thinking the Zoroastrian Flame Dancer with Mazdean heritage and some Divine aligned supernatural abilities may be out of place. I invented an entire culture for the character lol. The character may not be disruptive, but may just be out of place. She is an Aurum and Ignem concentrated Maga.

I'm thinking instead of maybe of a Criamon "mentalist" that may try exploring the Magic Realm. If it seems interesting, we possible can invent our own path or he could try to invent it himself. He would be wanting a secret place to work his experiments. Probably off the main Covenant site so possible aura fluctuations or explosions don't impact the rest of the Covenant.

That seems interesting. Would he be an elementalist?

Elementalist as in the Virtue? I don’t thinks so, potentially a Greater Magical Focus on Stone. Corpus would be a second Form of focus, and developing Muto and Rego for techniques, at least initially.

Character proposal Aella ex Miscellanea Tempesteria. This character doesn't have to be played here, if some modifications need made for this chronicle I'll make changes. I won't be upset if the character is disallowed. I just recently invented her family culture and the game fell apart where she is an apprentice. You will notice quite a few places that will be questionable for this campaing, however I wanted to run it by you. If not rejected out of hand I'll post the page numbers. I have other character ideas so again, I'm ok if this seems broken or out of place.

Devout(minor personality) - Zoroastrian ;
[b]Age Quickly/b
Outsider(major social) - or can be minor if a Persian ethnicity isn't so out of place
Envied Beauty (major Story) - spends is veiled or wears a half face mask when in public, few but her closest companions know she isn't disfigured

Childhood: or maybe she never repented properly and is still under the influence of a Greater Malediction such she has a hard tim focusing on the mundane world and is effectively:
Disfigured (minor Child ) from hubris struck by lightning (will take a long time to heal enough to not have the flaw)
Blind(Major general) - childhood tragedy result of hubris will exist until she properly atones.
She still has the Lichtenberg Figures, however they would look more like an odd makeup in casual glance.

Blood of the Fire Jinn (major supernatural) - requires approval. Is a variation on Mythic Blood and Strong Faerie Blood. By taking Magic Blood(minor) three times, once each for human, spirit, and thing. Then taking a minus personality flaw like Mythic Blood.
+1 Presence (3 max), +3 reputation with Fire Jinn
Enchanting Dance. Fires are affected in their personality along with whomever is manipulated by the dance. Aella becomes more obviously supernatural fire related, scars may glow depending.
Endurance of the Flame Dancer : Endurance of the Berzerker, (per, performance, group) lvl 20 penetration 10
-3 aging
-Weakness: Fire and Revelry
Magian Lineage(major general) -1 age, +3 resist desease
Linked Abilities: Enchanting Dance, Ceremony, and Kick Up the Wind
Troupe Upbringing (minor general) - Dance and playing with Fire
Second Sight (minor supernatural)-Divine - Realm alignment needs approval
Ceremony(minor supernatural) - Divine - Ability needs approval and may simply go unused. Culturally appropriated Sufi whirling.
Sense Holy and Unholy(minor supernatural) - Divine - Realm alignment needs approval

Ex Miscellanea Tradition: Variation on Tempesteria in HoH:S (105?)
Major- Kick Up the Wind - Presence plus ability to summon wind; Dex + Athletics(dance) to control
Minor - Performance Magic: Dance (I can instead use out of the book affinity and this can replace troupe Upbringing)
Major hermetic flaw- Chaotic Magic
(using casting tools ala the initial description impedes dancing. Though could make it require dance instead or require different props, possible require Fire?)

Again. I won't be upset if you said "zomg no way busted" lol. She has a lot of xp that will be devoted to Abilities as well as a second dead language Avesta, which really has no use other than religion and some initiations that she will not be devote enough to explore. Maybe angelic and demonic true names, but I don't think she's exploring theurgy ever. Despite the Mazdean heritage, being female and lacking true faith those mysteries and Divine powers are simply unobtainable.

Oi, this will need a lot of work.

Where is this from? Societates 56? This and outsider, the character will almost be socially unplayable.

Unless absolutely central to the character, I won't even discuss this one (see guidelines)

Thats tC&tC. <<
You have age quickly and two virtues that age you slowly >

Lets go back to basics... why would she join a Covenant on a mountain, in the middle of nowhere? Then build her up from then on. She will need a lot of work.

These are the Covenant fixed boons and hooks. I'll probably need more boons. Please propose what you would like to see, and I might accommodate. (Note: we aren't building it from the ground up, these boons/hooks are there for story reasons)

Free: Stone tower, Peasants
Boons: Favorable Aura (unknown), Aura x2, Seclusion, Hidden Resources, Local Ally (a must), Ungoverned
Hooks: Ruined Covenant, Cursed(unknown), Poverty (minor), Missing Founder, Infamous (this is an iffy), Monster 1-4(four potential monsters, you will probably meet two depending on how the campaign goes. Can be turned into allies)

[tab][/tab] At some point, you the players will do the Charter, with some extra provisions that you cannot avoid. This will be a Charter made before your characters joined and have to accept. Also you the players will have to find a reason why the Covenant was created, its dedication to a role or purpose (I have some ideas, but you should pick something you are comfortable with). You will already have a patron.

Kick Up the Wind is an xp sink that duplicates minor Creo Auram effects. It's cute, but something like Witch of Thessaly Summoning may be more useful.

Envied Beauty is a story flaw along the lines as Curse of Venus, except it's the same sex. Not every woman will be jealous, it's just a story hook. This can be substituted for another story flaw and or she can still be blind to the mundane world, maybe poor eyesight with some other flaws.

Magean Lineage is really just background for the possibility of future initiations which would require quests and pilgrimages far into the future, likely outside of game scope to join the tradition. A representation of culture and heritage, since she's female it will take a lot to open that door. It can be swapped out for Elemental Magic. The -1 aging is a bit over the top.

Ceremony is again a cultural tie. Just allows her to participate and keep herself ritually pure. I honestly don't know if it has mechanics outside of assisting someone else since she has no Holy powers or holy Magic or true faith. This can easily be removed and possibly pick up Mobed Lore to represent religious knowledge.

Age Quickly is meant to counterbalance the other aging modifying virtues. In effect what it does is sustain the vibrancy of youth during middle age, giving the illusion of the eternal flame. However once the threshold is passed where age/10 surpasses the linear modifiers, the rolling twice a year will make the effects of aging come crashing down quickly. Such she'll catch up and look her age, then suffer decrepitude much faster.

I think I could be doing exactly what you asked us not to do, which is shoehorn a character that doesn't fit. Lol.

Thoughts on a Witch of Thessaly?

I'm gonna throw out some lightly sketched character ideas to see if you have any comments about them not fitting. In each case they have similar motivations for coming to an out of the way covenant in the mountains. Specifically, its an out of the way covenant, in a place that is inconvenient to get to because they don't want to get caught up in politics or intrigue. They also probably botched their Order of Hermes Lore roll, since from the sounds of it this is not the place to do it. :laughing: Some combination of stubbornness, difficulty moving, building ties and somehow not having better options will cause them to stay regardless.

Magi ideas:
Idea one: The Boni researcher. Wants to perform original research. (S)he would be looking to improve upon the longevity ritual, or find a supplement to it.
Idea two: Merinita cultist! Seeks to carve out her own mystery path. Take independent study and Affinity for Merinita Lore and we should have someone on the way to an early Becoming! Ideally, only altering the body, since tampering with the mind and soul seems like something that could go badly without it being obvious.
Idea three: House Misc! Major Virtue of Death Prophecy (Can only die when decapitated.) Unaging is an extremely common virtue in this tradition as well. They have trouble (deficiency) with Perdo, likely related to their trouble with dying properly. Since they don't have to worry about dying of old age, they have a tendency to put off their longevity ritual until they start showing signs of age. When they also have the Unaging virtue this means they never bother with the longevity ritual. They mostly seem content to study and train apprentices. Multiple apprentices. They only appeared post Schism war, but some of the more politically aware magi from other houses see where this is going and are getting concerned. (S)he has a particularly strong reason to be out in the mountains: keeping a low profile.

I'm partial to three actually. The other two are really generic.

Companion Ideas, I really only have one:
Scholar hiding from his family! A third son was sent to school so he could support himself on his own. Then both his brothers died. He does not want to manage a farm. Or get involved with his family intrigues. Plus his eldest sister is actually surprisingly good with a sword and really good at farm management! Got headhunted as an instructor. Well trained in A.L., Classical Greek, Classical Latin, Teaching and so forth! Well paid.

On grogs: who is creating them? Grogs are fun! We could have a drunken librarian! We could have a band of criminals turned into still pretty criminal shield grogs! A small, vicious lady who likes to stab people because of all the blood that comes out! The covenant autocrat who really would like it if everyone could be normal for a few seasons! Plus its a well known fact* all grogs make funny squeaky noises when they die.
*not actually true.

Other questions/suggestions:
Are we using the lab customization guidelines from the Covenants book? If we're not just ignore this next bit.
If we are, I count four rooms that can make a normal sized lab without extra flaws. One that is size+1 and poorly insulated, which makes a fairly normal lab if you add spacious. One lab that is size+1, and elevated if we clear out the previous guys stuff. Which is more or less fine if we have no more than six people, and we trash the dead guy's room. But if we have more than that, I think we should add extra spaces that could be used as standard labs. One or two people getting screwed on their lab right off the sucks. I think that is a bad idea. Its easy enough to just add a level to the tower or a room in the barracks.
Are we using the extended library rules from Covenants?
My suggestion is we don't, or we make some changes to them. They make it, so being able to produce a decent book is dependent on "Did we spend 18 B.P. on being able to make a book?". If you did nothing changes, except I think it tramples on the flavor. Now "this book was penned by Bonisagus himself!" means you should go find the book that Bonisagus dictated to a master scribe, and had a master illustrator make for him. If you didn't well, that's just a flat -3 to book quality, which I guess is okay if you don't want your magi supporting each other? The other parts of the extended rules add some power creep to the books, which I don't think writing really needed. Basically I think the core rules for writing books are were its at!

My thoughts exactly on covenant's library rules.

Stuff I do like from there are glossing books and commentaries. But everything else just seems... lame.

I could make a Rustic Magi Book Binder and Illuminater...

The Mentalist, Criamon

Affinity Mentem (minor)
Mental Lab (minor) - proposed Virtue, allows for a mental lab construct (covenants) which may occupy space in Art of Memory if so desired.
Magical Memory(minor)
Puissant enigmatic wisdom(minor)
Affinity enigmatic wisdom(minor)
Clear Thinker(minor)
Second Sight(minor) or Learn from Mistakes (Enagmatic Wisdom) lol jk that's over the top.
Major Magic Focus: Memories(major)

Twilight Prone(major hermetic) - only a single botch to check for twilight
Unpredictable Magic(minor hermetic) - always roll a stress die and check for botch
Chaotic Magic(major hermetic) - spontaneous Magic is unpredictable
Weird Magic(minor) - weird 'botch die'
Warped Magic(minor) - not the same every time tech+form minor thing happens because why not?
Optimistic (minor personality) - "I'm sure it will be fine. Hold my beer"

One day he will want a spirit familiar

Ok, lets start with T. Rex's ideas:

[tab][/tab]There are quite a few 'nearby', in Erebus covenant. I allright with this provided: a) you make the witch exactly as the HoH: Societates pg 109, and we use Summoning from Infernal (with all that it entails), and you don't get the other stuff mentioned in Infernal, b) You have a very, very good reason why the character joins this covenant, since Erebus has all the hermetic witches and they are locked in a war with the Daughters of Erictho, c) do not even mention cthonic magic.
[tab][/tab] Witches, Karites and Hermetic Sahirs are one of those canon splats that break my guidelines, but I am willing to try them out if people want them.

[tab][/tab] You sure can, but Craft magic would apply only to Book Binding or Illumination, not both. I think Prof: Scribe is more of a performance thing, but I could allow it with restrictions. Again, why would this character leave Provencal to join a Covenant in the middle of nowhere? It would be fun with a Verditius in site!

The Mentalist, Criamon

I got no idea what this is, page and book? (From the sound of it and the mention of Art of Memory, a mystery virtue, I wont like it would I?)
Twilight prone+Unpredictable Magic+Chaotic Magic+Weird Magic= why isnt the character dead yet? In all seriousness, do you believe that such a character can be viable in a quest? If you dont roll high for control, you could spend a lot of time in twilight.
As long as you know the risks, understand the philosophy and beliefs of Criamon, and are willing to work with me, go for it...

[tab][/tab]Hello Quite Possibly a Cat , and welcome.

[tab][/tab] Very nice. There is a whole covenant in Greece that specializes in Longevity rituals, she could work in tandem with them. They are probably the best in all Tribunals. Original research is... difficult. Very timely, costly and punishing in rolls...plus the player will not know the target number nor if its possible at all. As long as you are fine with that and want to play this style, I am ok. However, you need to make sure the character is not confined in a laboratory all the time. I will need him to actually play. See character creation guideline for the Bonisagus example.

[tab][/tab]<.< Becoming, yes. See character creation guidelines. Ie. I would prefer not to, but if you really want this, I will work with you. Note, you start with Fae Magic, no other Mystery Virtue. Also there is a Covenant in the Aegean that does just that, could have synergy...

[tab][/tab] Ah yes, 'Highlander' attempt. See I think you misunderstand Death Prophesy, it is not 3rd edition Immortality+7. It's not 'Can only die when decapitated', its 'You will die when you lose your head':
-[tab][/tab]If you are decapitated, you lose your head
-[tab][/tab]If male and you lose your 'other head', you will die of bleeding
-[tab][/tab]If you get drunk and/or really mad and start a fight, someone stabs you and you die. People will say ' he died because he lost his head'
-[tab][/tab]Your very old grandpa, the head of your family, dies in a raid. You die with him trying to protect him.

Having said that, I am intrigued with an ex Miscellanea tradition, possibly dealing with divination or the dead, that has the apprentices go through a Gauntlet and they see their deaths (in a metaphor or in symbols). It makes them quite the tragic figures. Multiple apprentices is not a problem for the Order, in this case its mild alarm that these 'mavericks' will do crazy things (I think you were hinting that they were creating a deathless army or some such?). For a deathless cult, read up on the Gruagachan in Lion of the North and Brude Deathless. You will have to rethink this concept a bit more to make it work.

[tab][/tab]Interesting, needs more work. Be careful not to make him a bookworm closed in a library. You need to be able to actually play the character. Maybe he is a researcher in folklore, an avid collector of rare books, a student of the Magic realm who cannot actually perceive it, or a pursuer of truth (journalist) who wants to reveal the secrets of Magi to the world....

No grog creation at this time. They will be generic, until played. Then they get named, and after a while, if the players like them and become a fixture, they get stats and advancement. I have... bad experiences with grogs. I will allow magi one or two personal grogs, but I prefer them as background characters. (I know, its contrary to how most people play)

[tab][/tab] Yes, we are. And from the get-go, three people are out of luck (I think I mentioned that in the recruitment post at the 6-8 person?). There is a reason for that, you will become aware of it when we do the Charter.

As for the Books part, let me think about it...

For the criamon the "mental lab" is a proposed Virtue. It's listed as a flaw for a laboratory in covenants page 120. It's a super bad lab, I think you can research spells but that's about it. It's one of those flaws that make me wonder.

It could be an initiation in a different path if you're interested in that route, which case I can substitute it with something else.

I've had to read and reread the Criamon book, I find it unintelligible, but I think I have an idea to make Criamon actually riddling and looking to unlock mysteries of the universe. As they are now they are in a literal version of Socrates allegory of the cave staring at reflections of reality pondering the meaning of grapefruit.

I'm actually interested in exploring the Magic Realm and creating a fixed Labyrinth Vestige. With the idea that Criamon in fact escaped time and is forever watching an infinity of creation and thus an infinity of sorrow. Since his Nous is not there on destruction he is recreated, so an infinity of Criamon sit outside of time looking at each other. However, now each iteration of creation is different, having lost a little something each time. So not every cycle is Criamon escaping. This leaves us with a countable ratio of infinities.

Note this guy needs to be Vedic for the understanding of infinity, context free languages, and cryptography to create a fixed labyrinth Vestige. Which, mathematically speaking should be "unique" and there for it's remembrance should lead back to this cycle or world. Misremembering won't lead anywhere. If one considers all time happens at once if looking at cycles end to end, or all possible universes exist simultaneously passing in uniform time step. Theoretically this is e difference between traveling through Thresholds or Vestiges. Traveling at non Euclidean angles through cycles or universes is too confusing to explain in this lecture. Time isn't circular, it's an conic 3 dimensional construct, an ellipse or a hyperbola if viewed from different angles... with a bit of warping since it isn't perfect.

I have like 5 pages of Theory I wrote when I was on mushrooms. I mean, he wrote. He probably needs "unintelligible" flaw.

The Rustic Magi wouldn't have profession scribe, he'd have Craft: Illustration... To use in tattooing and body art as well. He'd be terrible at actually copying books. The book binding is sorta a munchkin thing, where the Virtue "good teacher" gets placed in it... I wouldn't actually try to do that.