OOC Discussion

OK, I edited the "Books" entry, which is last one in the house rules. How does it look?


Looks good (although at first I thought you'd meant you'd added the new lab texts to the covenant's library, and was puzzling over why nothing had changed).

Testing, Testing... Everything seem to be in order:
Hello Earthlings, I am the Arcane Snowman and I come in peace, take me to your leader!

Whoops, wrong place for that. Anyway, nice to meet you all. I've been given permission by MTKnife to join the game, and so I will produce a character sheet as soon as possible, so that I can begin some roleplaying.

I'm thinking of making a Criamon mage on the Path of Strife, as it's one of the houses that are quite interesting.

On to a bit of nitpicking (it's the best way for someone with an intermediate knowledge of a system to learn more about it IMO):
Callen: Tasia has Enigmatic Wisdom, but not the Enigma virtue, on page 92 under Criamon: the Enigma, it says that a character may not learn Enigmatic Wisdom without being initiated into the mystery of the Enigma, how did she get it?

Callen would know for certain, but at a guess it's due to a Twilight experience.

(The main book says that Enigmatic Wisdom xp can be the result of a positive Twilight experience. It's not clear whether this requires you to already have a score in it.)

The issue I have with that, is that then House Criamon isn't as mysterious nor as odd as the books make them out to be. Their entire philosophy and all of their principles are extrapolated from that single ability, if a successfully comprehended Twilight experience was all it'd take to understand even the basics of the Enigma, then they'd be neither mysterious nor odd.

Edit: not saying that I think it should be completely impossible to learn of The Enigma solely from the Twilight, however, I just think you need the virtue first, meaning you'd have to gain 7 warping in one experience, and the potential of acquiring a minor virtue (however the troupe determines such a thing, in my RL game, we roll a dice). If not, every character has a pretty sizable chance to just spontaneously know the Enigma every time they Twilight (you gain a minimum of 3 Warping during any twilight experience, so you'd be able to get at least 6 exp in Enigmatic Wisdom any time you Twilight)

Edit 2: What season and year is it? As far as I can tell it's 1228 Winter, but that may very well be totally and utterly mistaken.

I can see what you're saying on the Enigmatic Wisdom, although I don't have very strong feelings either way myself.

And yes, it's the end of Winter 1228, on the basis that each year goes Winter, Spring, Summer, Autumn.

I don't think you could learn it without the Virtue, but yes, that's a change from earlier versions of the game, where you'd sometimes see magi of other houses with it.


Well it is a minor virtue, which means you could get it through Twilight if you got enough warping. Likewise the Criamon are as written, one of the least "secretive" mystery cults out there, and don't actually try to kill people who know their mysteries. What makes them a mystery cult in the first place is the fact that not everyone has the capacity to comprehend even the basics of the Enigma, and many who do don't have the inclination. They're also the laxest enforcers of secrecy, there's even a virtue for being previously of house Criamon, called Gorgiastic (in HoH: MC), all it means is that you're limited in the amount of Enigmatic Wisdom you can learn, and that the Criamon from time to time try to convince you to come back.

All your snow are belong to us.

Welcome, AS! Just recently arrived here m'self - if you care to, read over the recent discussion in Char Development and voice your views.

As for that above, I like EW to belong to House Criamon alone - that's the big draw, and it's imbalancing imo to allow it to leak onto any Player Character who wants it, especially with decades PG of customized backstory instantly available.

I found the answer to my question regarding Tasia, the Spirit Familiar virtue gives the three familiar chord additional benefits, the golden chords adds it's bonus to Enigmatic Wisdom as well. (even if the magus doesn't have Enigmatic Wisdom)

I've finally gotten through all of Chapter 3 of The Sundered Eagle. I think it's a wonderfully creative take on a tribunal. My concern about adopting it wholesale in this particular saga is that doing so would result in having to rewrite large portions of the covenant's and possibly characters' backstories. The areas I can see as being particularly problematic, in addition to apprentices, are patrons (given that Nova Castra was formed, by Tribunal decree, before any patron had been identified) and the extensive use of Greek (to the point of casting spells in it).

I'd like to hear opinions on whether and to what extent we should adopt the various parts of this background. Also, is there anyone who doesn't have the book and feels he would be lost because of that?

Incidentally, I noticed that in addition to the one-token reward for finding a Gifted, there's a two-shard penalty for not turning one over. This does encourage turning one over more than I'd thought, but it doesn't encourage actively looking for one, and it might actually discourage following up on reports of potential apprentices, because any magus finding one assumes an obligation with more potential downside than upside.


Backstory isn't a major problem for Gregorius (although as I remember, Viola has a past covenant in the area so it would probably be more for her?). The idiosyncracies of the Theban tribunal were one area where I'd expected there to be some potential for story - there are a number of places in the Sundered Eagle where it's implied or flat out stated that the Tremere would quite like the tribunal to stop being quite so idiosyncratic and align with the rest of the Order, and Gregorius is a) idealistic and b) has only ever really been exposed to Tremere ideals.

Patrons is a slight issue, given we should really have one by now. Could modify it so that we just need one by our first tribunal, could just drop it altogether. Gregorius isn't going to be exactly keen on the idea, but I don't see that as an OOC reason to avoid requiring them - if anything, the reverse.

I wouldn't have thought finding an apprentice need be that much of an issue - just notify the redcaps next time they turn up, and have them take the potential apprentice away if you don't want him. The (canonical, which I thought we were dropping anyway?) penalty's for refusing to turn one over, not for waiting a month until your next Redcap visit to avoid a long trip.

I might ask a bit more questions, but I don't think I'll be lost by any means. Phasma grew up in a different Tribunal, so most of everything else isn't going to affect her.


A patron is a powerful supernatural entity, like a giant or monster or Greek god, that's venerated by the covenant--in games terms, it's an ally of the covenant.


OK, I've just posted an additional vis source in the "Covenant" thread: though the information was never communicated to Viola, Theodoric recalled that the covenant had sacrificed a horse each spring on the altar in the temple portico, and then preserved the bones after the feast was over. When the magi examine the bones, they find one pawn of Animal vis.


Since Patrick hasn't spent any time in this tribunal aside from saga time, it doesn't bother him. Though, as a player who has disappeared several times over the last year, I have some concerns about my ability to find time to read the latest supplements in a timely manner.

Do you want letters to appear in their own thread?

I'm told there was some interest in investigating the burial mounds near the covenant. As Faerie bSG, I'm pretty sure that storyline falls into my purview. I have done enough homework to start the story, if we want to begin. Is there anything we're waiting on?

Also, does anyone have any particular requests about the burial mound story?

I think that sounds reasonable to me. Salutor, what do you think?


We're still waiting on one new character to be created, but I can involve that character in another story. I assume Viola would be dragooned into taking part in this one. In what year and season does it take place?