OOC Discussions and Table Talk

To hold out of character discussions, such as potential house rules, interpretation of the rules, jokes or sources of information, etc.

Any preference on the starting year of the saga? I tend to like setting up slightly before the official date, as it gives me more events to integrate into the saga as it progresses, but I'm open to suggestions and I don't have a specific date in mind in this case.

No preference. Going a lot back puts the new ship types really into the future, though. Cogs would not be common

If we go back before 1198 I'll have to revise my backstory (not a problem), otherwise no preference.

No preference.

Ok, let's go with starting date being 1210. That would put the beginning of apprenticeships in 1195 or so. One or two of the magi may end up being aged a few years (less than 5) to avoid all of them being taken as apprentices at the same time, which is always strange. Those years will have been spent trying to fit into an existing covenant, and failing.

This should have little impact on Halancar's backstory.

A couple of rule questions:

Does the virtue Keen Vision also affect Second Sight rolls ?
Is the extra botch dice from Weird Magic also susceptible to be cancelled by Cautious Sorcerer / Spell Mastery, like regular botch dice ?

It could work either way, but I will rule that it doesn't. Second Sight is not strictly based on the sharpness of your vision, but rather a sensitivity to otherworldly phenomena.

Cautious Sorcerer will not remove the extra botch die from Weird Magic. Same thing for a familiar Gold Cord score. Essentially, it is considered as the same as "the last botch die". You essentially have two last botch dice, which are rolled in parallel: the normal one and the one from Weird Magic.

Spell Mastery may eliminate it, at the same time as it eliminates the last normal botch die (an extra mastery level is not needed to remove the Weird Magic die). Page 86 states that "Mastered spells are always cast with a stress die, but if the maga is relaxed there is no botch dice, even in a non-magic aura or when using vis." So if the spell is mastered and you are relaxed, no check for Weird Magic will be made.

One more question, regarding the book used: is it okay to borrow spells/guidelines written in books beyond the core book, if they do not require special virtues ?

I'm thinking of Coerce the Spirit of (Form), a ReFo spell from TMRE. It's standard Hermetic Magic, but it uses a guideline, ReFo 5: control a disembodied spirit of (Form), that is not in AM5. (Please say no, then my parens can't make me learn it even though she clearly wants to ! :slight_smile: ).

No. :wink:

Actually, the guidelines from other books may become accessible once the saga starts, but your initial magus should only use spells that are in the core book. It is unlikely that your parens taught you anything non-standard during apprenticeship.

I may entertains one or two minor spell designed from scratch, but nothing special or exotic. It needs to make sense for your parens to have taught you this.

There goes my Bottle of Liquid Light spell too ! :slight_smile: How about minor variations (Range or Duration) of standard spells ?

Can we create spells using the core book guidelines? I was looking at some Sight range or +1 size spells, or diameter versions of Sun spells in the core book. Can we do that or create a spell that follows a core book guideline 100%?


A few variants in R/D/T, or custom-designed spells using the guidelines, are acceptable. But only a few of them. Most spells should be as per the core book.

And they need to make sense based on your parens' interests. The apprentice would not have been allowed to design new spells himself.

Not that since I am not using Covenants, casting tablets (which allow you to cast spells you do not know) do not exist.

So someone will have to learn Aegis of the Hearth if you want to be protected. Or at least have a lab text of the ritual if you want to learn it during the saga.

Hmm, I end up with a whooping 1 in my ReVi combo, which means I could learn Aegis at level 10, and my casting bonus would be +5 so Penetration would be minimal. Okay, that's a waste of precious vis, I'll leave that to someone else !

My parens' interest are outside the core book, how sad (spirit magic) ! But I'm trying to make sure the spells make sense anyhow. It's hard. Still, leaving on a small island, Lungs of the Fish do make at least some sense...

I suppose I am the most suitable caster since I have a total of 13 in my ReVi casting total. However, my problem is that I will be breaking my "level 15 spells only" auto-limitation if I do. And I would have zero or even NEGATIVE penetration most of the time, so everybody ill be able to walk through it without problems anyway. Unless I can learn a level 10 aegis, that is.

So, I will break the rule and learn Aegis 20 (25?), but I will ask the other players to earn Wizard's communion 15. That will allow 4 of the magi to join together to cast spells, and should boost our overall casting total enough for us not to totally suck :mrgreen:

So, everybody must learn Wizard's Communion 15, please. I will learn Aegis 20.

Since Aegis of the Hearth is a ritual, the minimum level at which it can be learned is 20.

If your new covenant if not protected by it, you can be sure something interesting will happen eventually. :laughing:

Now, you don't have to know it right at the start of the saga. (grins evilly)

I just thought I'd mention it while people are still creating their magi, to give the troupe the option of learning it beforehand. Otherwise your small group will need a lab text, and probably a lab text for Wizard's Communion as well.

BTW, I will remind you of the errata regarding Wizard's Communion. The duration of WC must be at least as long as the time it takes to cast the target spell. So, to use it for Aegis, it should be D:Sun instead of D:Mom (a variant which is often known as Ritual's Communion). Which reduces its effectiveness by 10 levels... And you will need to total 40 levels of effectiveness between a maximum of 4 magi... So each magus would need to know it at level 20 (effective level 10).

Another option is for the magi to somehow make a deal for someone else to cast the ritual for them...

And learning a level 20 spell for a newly Gauntleted magi requires that spell to fall within the magus' specialty, or the magus to be an exceptional generalist. Extremely unlikely that four magi could all make it. Much more likely that one magus manages to learn the level 20 Aegis on his own. Even if there is no Penetration to speak of, that's still quite a bit of protection.

Indeed, difficult to learn and cast effectively. But even with 0 penetration, the Aegis would still penalize magi and creatures trying to use powers within the Aegis.