OOC Discussions and Table Talk

Read this yesterday evening but decided to sleep on it, both to give me some time to think about it and because I would have had to post from my phone. Which, for long posts, can be laborious. :wink:

Seeing you step aside is certainly not something that I want! I appreciate your take on things, even if at the moment we seem to be butting heads on some basic assumptions on the saga.

I will not pretend that a part of what I wrote was not aimed specifically at your objections, as a player. As you have been the most vocal about the objections, and since you initiated this discussion, of course I am trying to answer to you, as a player. But what I wrote was also true, to an extent about all the players and even more, of their magi.

It is my hope that we can resolve this and move forward.

With this goal in mind, I will try to explain my reasons for the position I have been defending in regard to the restrictions being imposed on the covenant by the village and by the setting. Some of this I thought was clear from the initial announcement of the saga, but that is obviously not as clear as I expected. Perhaps the short hiatus over the hollydays clouded the understanding of both sides, or perhaps it was as clear as I thought. In any case, let's try to clarify the game contract.

There, I believe, lies the center of contention. In a regular saga, I think it would be fair to say that a covenant would have almost-exclusive control over a fairly large area of lands, building and expanding as much as they like based on whatever investment of resources they can afford.

To me, when I announced that this would be a low-resource saga, the in-character rationale behind the scarcity of resources was three-fold:

  • First, a social context within the Order that limited the sharing of magical resources -- from the lack of trust between magi and the hold that established covenants had over younger ones. This meant that the most obvious magical auras and vis sources were accounted for.
  • Second, a cosmological context where magical sites and their vis sources were becoming scarce. This made new covenants even more difficult to establish, since conveniently located auras and sources were difficult to find.
  • Third, a context that made interference with mundanes more risky. This meant that control over vast mundane resources would be difficult. Yes, magi have ways to generate income that mundane lack, but they need to be implemented in such a way that did not interfere with mundanes. I explained this by a stricter interpretation of the interference with mundanes clause of the Oath by Quaesitores. The was backed by the desire from established covenant to retain their hold on younger magi, as well as the mysterious occurences of magi being mobbed and killed by mundanes.

Together, these initial assumptions on my part means that the starting position you describe above was not even remotely possible. That would draw too much mundane attention, which is something your magi should be trying to avoid at all cost. Because if mundane powers become aware of you as a covenant of magi, then chances are that established covenants would become aware of you soon after. And once they did, you would come under a lot of unwelcome attention.

This explains why, out-of-character, I had trouble grasping the path you wanted to take. If, as a troupe, you want to change some of those assumptions, then I'm open to suggestions. Although that was the overarching story I was proposing to tell (i.e. a struggle to covertly develop a new covenant in a low-resource environment), I understand that this might not be what you understood you (the players) were signing up for.

Now we come to the in-character reasons for the restrictions. This is a bit of a sideline issue compared to what I wrote above regarding the game contract, but I will discuss it anyway. Note that I will include some information that your magi do not have access to at this time.

I believe that the way I depicted the villagers' reaction is quite sensible. The magi showed up, out of nowhere, and informed the village that they would be taking part of their ancestral lands. This is a rustic willage, which has deliberately kept itself seperate from the rest of the island for the most part. Now strangers come and offer to "make their life better" in exchange for taking away a part of the land that they currently need to survive. The strangers promise that they will bring more wealth to the village than what they will take away as land, not to worry. New jobs! New wealth!

A modern-life analogy would be something like this. Imagine that you are sitting at home, minding your own business after your day's work. There's a know on your door and a man presents himself to you. He offers you to invest a significant part of your income into this new way of making money. Don't worry, he says, the investment will generate enough money to compensate for your lost income. He presented his product to the government, he says, and the investment product has been approved. In fact, it will soon be mandatory for everyone. You get a choice of paying him by way of checks, direct deposit or by having the money taken at the source from your salary. At first you say no, not interested. He insists, telling you that you have no choice in the matter as the government backs this. Well, maybe a little, then. Not enough that you risk losing your house because of the lost income. But he insist that you need to put more of your income into it, right away. Or else. What would you do?

In short, it doesn't matter what you promised the village. They don't trust that you can make good your claims. They may not have a choice, but they will do everything they can to keep it to a minimum.

They seem to know more than they should. Ask yourself why. This is not simply me as the SG trying to foil your desires as players. This is part of the story...

Gotta go, have a meeting at work.

I'm fine regarding the amount of negotiation and the villagers' position.

I'll be away on vacation for a bit over a week starting now.

Have fun Wits!

For everyone, I will be posting some new stuff this week.

While on the subject of vacations, I will be away from July 17th through July 27th on vacation. I will have limited to no Internet access during this time, so please don't wait on me while I'm gone.

Hello folks,

I've only recently joined the Ars Magica forums here, but I've been familiar with the game 9system and setting) for many years, although much of it in older editions. Your chronicle has stood out to me for it's low-key approach, which tends to fit my personal preferences much better than the usual high fantasy "everyone is an arch-mage" style.

If there is room in your troupe for another player, please let me know. I've not yet started on a character, so should you decide there is room for one more, and you all have preferences as to the type of magus/maga or companion, feel free to say so. I'm generally happy to adjust things.

Kind regards,


(Moved this post here as this seemed a more appropriate place to discuss this.)

What are the current players' feelings regarding adding another new player to the saga?

I'm aware that this might (initially) make things more difficult to the current magi, because of the space constraints of the plateau. Just know that any in-character difficulties can be worked into the story. I can arrange for things to work out in the end, as much as these things can be.

I'm more interested in the player aspect. Do you feel that adding another player may have an impact on the saga's pace, time given to each player, or any other out-of-character aspect?

No big issue adding a new player. I would advise him to read very carefully the guidelines for this saga, since usual character creation is extremely suboptimal in this environment where magic needs to be mostly a hidden feature.

Silberluchs contacted me again via PM. He read through the saga and decided the pace was a bit too slow for his tastes.

Hopefully things will pick up when some stories begin. :slight_smile:

I will be offline untill Monday.

I am back from vacation (it was delightful), and am ready to get back into the swing of things.

I'll be on vacation for a week from now; I might be able to post, but don't count on it.

I'm currently locked out of my account because of a password error. Right now I'm in an eternal loop if it asking me to enter a CATCHKA, but refusing to accept my answer. I've alerted the webmaster, but I have no idea how long it's going to take to correct the issue. In the meanwhile, I've made up this account as a stopgap to let me post.

I'm back on. No clear reason why I was in that loop except that it's probably my privacy settings.

As you may have noticed, I haven't been able to post lately.

This will probably last for another week or two, as I have major renovation work going on at home that I need to supervise. And most importantly, my older brother suffered from a stroke about a week ago and is still in the hospital. So I need to take some time to visit him (he lives 3 hours away) and help my parents take care of various stuff for him.

Thanks for your patience.

Please, take care of your brother first and foremost. This is just a game. It can wait while you deal with more important things.

Indeed, no worries.

I can only agree. Take your time.

Hi all,

I should have written this a while ago, but several things kept getting in the way. As I told Arthur already, I am dropping from the game. The premises it is based on where not so clear when I entered the game and I do not find myself enjoying the game much under them having designed my character for another kind of game. I actually think they are very worthy premises, just not what I like. As such I prefer to drop from the game instead of playing half heartedly to the determent of all. I hope you all enjoy your game immensely. :slight_smile:


I think I'll be able to resume the saga soon, if the remaining players are still on board.

So, can each player (Wits, Bearlord and Trogdor) manifest themselves to let me know if you are interested in resuming the saga?