OOC: General

Please do not post in announcements.
This is a General Discussions thread. Use however you will. There will be other more specialized OOC threads.

Glad to see this up and running. Would this be a good place to pitch character ideas?

For what it’s worth, I’m considering a magus of House Flambeau who focuses on earth magics. Early in his apprenticeship he meddled in the affairs of the fey and was cursed with a malediction that shrunk his body (Dwarf flaw). In addition to developing his specialty, he has also become interested in magic that may restore his form.

For now, probably. He's getting things set up.

Fair enough :slight_smile: Pardon the excitement, by day I’m a college professor and it’s grading season. I welcome this distraction.

I am too lazy to add the links I wanted today, I'll do it tomorrow ><

(EDIT: Tymfi

Anyone knows how to make Announcements? Cant seem to figure this out

Oh by making the forum post stuck to the top of the page in the special GM section? I honestly can't remember.

It's ok. You're a mod in this forum so if we go off the rails posting gibberish you can nuke threads.

Sweet. You got links figured out :0)

Are we doing the "all gods are Faerie" out of the Sundered Eagle? It means there is no Magic, since Mercury is Faerie. Or are you going with the RoP:Faerie view that Faeries are using the residual beliefs and are pretending. Much like Faerie and King Arthur, where there are multiple Arthur's across Mythic Europe.

Without the appropriate lores interpretations would be indistinguishable from the truth, but a Merinita would know the Fae gods are fake (with lores). For my sanity I pretty much ignore most of what Sundered Eagle says about the Olympians.

Lots to read. Really cool. I wouldn't fret about not getting everything. It is a great read and a lot of research. I'm buzzing with ideas.

"Non-flammable" should be "anti-inflammable" ;0)

<_< I wont get into a large philosophical discussion about gods and fae. Suffice to say that in this campaign I will be using a weird amalgamation, resulting in mysteries to be discovered.

o_o wait what? I thought 'non-flamable' is it cant burn, while 'anti-inflammable' is it wont allow something else to burn....?

I'm just being weirdly pedantic, ignore me lol. You're probably right.

Every time I see the title «bad apples», I keep thinking about the old fan-published adventure of «Trouble at Gloria Senecta» which I played twenty-odd years ago.

Is it just me?

Hello all,

[tab][/tab] First of all, sorry for not handling this earlier. Any 'issues' will be resolved soon, please be patient. Where I am, we are currently in Eastern week, and its rather hectic this weekend (Happy Orthodox Easter by the way). I will try to do some posts, make some more Google map links I wanted and upload some images.
[tab][/tab] Week one is over and I have down six people. On site we have the drafts for four magi and one companion, I think that a very good sign of progress. I understand that some people might want us to go faster, while others will feel we are going too fast. I will try to balance this. In fact, one of the logistic key parts of this campaign is that I will be implementing a Scheduler. This will be a tracking post of the activities and quests that will happen during one year, detailing four seasons. There will be quests for the main storyline, side quests and expeditions. Each will be a brief detail, possibly including hints on what skills will be needed, plus a request for 0-x Magi and 0-x Companions. This way: a) you can juggle where you want your companions to go, where and if you want your Magus to get involved, and still not be left out, b) outside these you can play a generic grog in other quests, c) players can then request personal stories (ie 'I want to get more information on this manuscript' or 'I am going to do fly-overs the near mountains') and/or some players might want to run their own stories, d) all these stories will be run at the same time.
[tab][/tab]This might seem a bit chaotic and counterproductive. I want to try this format because Ars Magica gives the unique option of pacing different parts of a story in years instead of days. In a PbP it will also be possible for me to retroactively change things in timelines if necessary. Lets have fun!

(EDIT) I got no idea what «Trouble at Gloria Senecta» is, link?

The force is strong with him.
The SG reads minds :slight_smile:

Sounds like a brilliant approach. I am looking forward to it.

Wow. I found it, or one version of it, at least, not the original.
ii.uib.no/~georg/alt/rpg/ars ... glish.html

(ST EDIT) Thanks, I'll look it over

It is nothing special. It just happens to feature an apple tree, with bad apples.

[tab][/tab] Added Google map links and some Photos, on all three stubs in Bad Apples Campaign

a practical question.
Can we try to avoid re-editing previous posts, at least as a means of responding? The forum interface has no mechanism to list recent changes, other than new posts, so responses made as edits are easily missed. New posts are easily found, last in the thread, and threads with new posts are listed first in other listings.

Thanks, BTW, for flagging changes you made to early campaign posts. Edits are of course fine, when they are also announced in a new post.

I have a couple of questions concerning spells, and I do not know if the follow-up questions have been missed too. I do not mean to be impatient, I just don't want to go under the radar. They are in Arni's thread (fourth post). (1) is whether one can use voice range (> Per) with unintelligible sound; (2) is how range and target is interpreted on certain Auram spells where wind is used to affect a person or other target.

Oh, sorry :S Just trying to keep posts to a minimum, I hate long threads. Plus on hindsight, each easier to read the post and the answer to the post without intervening posts, but that ok, I'll do it the regular way here.

The spells: As a general rule, as per character creation guideline I posted, I do not allow spells created by players and those not in books. I do allow all spells in books, and I can discuss some modifications.
CrIm3 Voice of the Mute Wizard No own spells at beginning; you ight find a previously published spell and ask to tweak it though. (I also do not think you can cast spells using the image)
ReTe10 Touch of Giant's Strength Thats a tough one. Mainly because you added no restrictions and there are tons of restrictions. Each restriction should be discussed individually, so I'll table them. Dropping voice to touch is +1. Adding weight would be a seize issue. Seize is governed on pg 113 insert, use that as a guideline. Concentration to sun can be made with +1, provided it is clear about needing concentration to move the item. However you could wave that with the Touch restriction (kinda like, when you touch the object, you move it. But then you will need constant physical contact). I would avoid this spell for starts, why don;t you post it as a question in these forums for smarted people than me to debate? :slight_smile:
CrAu35 Incantation of Lightning I think I answered that somewhere. Ok, Voice range needs voice. IF you cast without voice, your range is 0-personal. However for Bjornae, thats why they have sensory magic mystery, it is exactly what you seek. You can cast the spell without component and you use a sensory component, including sound, to define range (silent cast the spell, screech or roar to define range)
Mu(Re)Au20 Talons of the Winds Yes the target is the wind, large area is Voice (for Voice ranges see pg 83 insert. It states exactly how many paces), Rego component protects the caster. (1)Touch range would change the wind blowing in a very small area around you, and you would be immune to it. O_o
[tab][/tab] (2) You would turn it into a variant of Circling Winds of Protection that only does damage to those that are in melee range to you, maybe destroying some projectiles. Whether its 15 or 20 depends on the concentration vs diameter duration, I'll have to research that in this case.
Cr(Re)Au30 Wings of Soaring Wind You mean the rego component? I thinks that for controlling the wind. If you want to affect an item but not affect you, that would probably by an extra +1 and thus magnitude. If I understood your question correctly that is, I could be wrong.
CrAu25 Pull of the Skybound Winds Yes, and you can start with it, just make a note thats its sight range.

(1) As discussed for unintelligent sounds, see Bjornae sensory Magic
(2) Well... Its like this. Spells affect the wind, which does stuff to people and items. To avoid the problem of targeting (groups, boundaries etc) they solve this problem by using Voice/Sight range, and using the wind in this 'area' to do stuff to targets in that area. Otherwise there would be much bickering on who the target is, where it is etc, and a very unnecessary increase in the magnitudes. Its cheating basically....

I also assumed that it would not work for spell casting; I wanted it for communication. But ok, I have to invent it then. Or use the MuAn14 or whatever from HoH:MC. No problem.

First of all. I don't understand what you mean, since «table» has opposite meanings in English and in American, and I don't know which you write :slight_smile:

Sorry, I was unclear. The restriction I wanted to drop was the 6' above ground. That's artificial. All the others are related to range/duration/target, and can be handled via the guidelines.

Well, size is tricky still, because the spell description does not use the size guideline for the form, but relates it to a person of Str +5 instead. A person, even of Str +5, cannot lift 10 cubic paces of dirt, no matter how slowly he moves. Not even close. But this is not really the point, I only wanted to increase size if there were spare levels after all other modification, so we can leave this.

Dropping range to touch should be -1, not +1. Thus the question is really if you will accept dropping the 6' above ground restriction for +1 magnitude (more? less?)

You did start on an answer, but the conclusion was not clear to me. I commented again via edit, which you presumably did not see. :slight_smile:
I'll repeat the main point, probably better phrased since I have had more time to think.

What you describe is not how sensory magic is defined in HoH:MC. Sensory magic is sensory target, which means that you affect everyone within earshot. The range is then always personal. So at the bottom line, this is entirely a different kettle of fish.

What is still unclear is if an animal sound is considered to be a voice for the purpose of voice range. It is absolutely not made explicit anywhere that I have seen. It is clear that it is not intelligible speech, and therefore requires quiet magic or a -10 penalty, but it is not obvious that the range depends on intelligibility. You keep referring to HoH(Bjornaer), but I cannot find anything there which is relevant to the question. How do you define voice?

Sorry for keeping on about this. Voice range is new in 5ed so I have never thought it through before.

OK, so you use the voice ranges on p. 83 to define the size of the target as well!? You affect every wind/part of the wind within the range, not just an individual wind.

This does make a certain sense, and it is very playable, but I do think it has some implication contrary to RAW. «Transforms a wind into an abrasive medium that tears and claws at everything in its path.» To me this means that the transformation is still effective as the wind moves out of the spells range, as is normal for most spells. On page 125: «A base Individual for Auram is a weather phenomenon that affects the area within a standard Boundary — an area one hundred paces across.» I cannot see anything in the rules to say that the size of the target is influenced by the range of the spell.

It would also be inconsistent with other canon spells, such as Chamber of Spring Breezes (touch/Sun/ind), which creates a weather phenomenon covering a room, even if the touch range does not cover the room.

If you want to stick with this interpretation, could you write out a very precise house rule on it?

This is not RAW, but I'll accept a house ruling on it, but please write it up in detail in the house rule thread, and some care should be made to make sure that canon spells are either consistent with the house rule, or explicitly mentioned as exceptions. Otherwise, we shall get into new discussions when we introduce new spells based on RAW.

No, if we use your interpretation, that all these spells affect a part of the weather phenomenon constrained by the spell range, and not the whole individual target, then most of my ideas make no sense whatsoever.

I should like one spell which allows me to carry a load as eagle, say from the covenant court yard to the top of one of the famous towers. It can be done with either ReTe (as discussed above), but requiring a modification to the unseen porter. Alternatively, it can be done with Cr(Re)Au. If we can resolve one of the two, we don't need the other.

There is nothing in the guidelines to suggest that it would be harder than Wings of the Soaring Wind, if I fly with the wind and can use touch range. Adding a magnitude, and it becomes voice range, which may be easier. (Using the voice spell from HoH:MC if necessary.) I cannot do Cr(Re)Au > 30, so if I need the extra magnitude I cannot do it.

No, I think the Rego component makes sense, so it the question is really if I can use the wind to move anything, as long as I touch the wind.

FYI. I posted the two tricky questions on the general ArM forum. For the voice range as heartbeast, I got back a reference to a previous discussion:
The majority seems to agree that voice range can be defined by sounds not necessarily intelligible speech. This applies both to enchanted items and heartbeasts.

For the other question, there is only one reply so far, so let's wait and see if there is more.

Is it a good idea to quote the original message below like this, to save people from searching back through the thread? If not, I can edit and remove it.

Touch of Giant's Strength
Touch is +1, Voice is +2 (thats what I meant with -1, you reduce it by 1). So... Base 3, Touch +1, Sun +2, Size +1. We do it lvl 20, it increases volume of object by 10 and you can eliminate the height. Appropriate requisites still apply, as does finesse. You need to touch the object to move it. Since we added size and the speed is relevant to the weight, you could have the eagle carry a normal bag at high speed this way. OR Base 3, Touch +1, Sun +2, lvl 15, we drop the height requirement and keep everything else? Thoughts?

the whole range/target thing I see it like this

You target 1 thing, the wind right? But that could be anything from a stray breeze (barely filling a room), to the North wind (probably covering half of Europe). That range restricts you, effectively defining the area of effect. Otherwise RAW would had to use pg 113 Targets and Sizes. Wind magic probably cannot use room or structure in this case, so you would be defined either by individual, group or boundary. Almost non of the Auram spells do that. Lets see an actual example:

Jupiter's Resounding Blow pg 125
Voice, Individual
However the spell affects everyone directly underneath. The individual is the air/wind. But it doesn't specify how many are the underneath people. Hence you define the are of effect by Voice. It effect everyone in range of Voice. Also note that it adds a magnitude for unusual, spell functions indoor. It could use room instead but doesnt.

Most of the Auram spells seem to function like that. Lets see Incantation now. It affects Individual, one person. How far can that person be? Voice range. But pg 83 table states that Voice means different things depending on how high your voice is. At loud its 50 paces. At Silent, its 0 paces (caster only). Is that more clear?

Talons of the Winds and Chamber of Spring Breezes
Applying the Muto effect to the Wind causes the same problem. How big is the wind. Is it too big? Should we be using size modifier? How high is the phenomenon? If its a whole gale, would it effect the whole coast of France? My interpretation is that the Range part limits the effect without increasing the magnitude. You are correct about the chamber... it could be redefined as Touch+1 Sun+2 , Room +2. Thats one magnitude more. It instead adds that unnatural +1 and you get a cheaper spell.

As for the carrying stuff, you can do Perdo to remove the weight entirely (see the Verditius he already has a canon spell that does that), or a muto spell to make it more light. Rego isnt the only option.
(I'll now post about the next post. This is heavy stuff, and I dont think I am the best person to answer :S )

Right, read your questions and the answers. As I said, there are wiser people than me out there, good call.

Based on the Muto flaw, Voice is not based on spellcasting words. You will take the -10 penalty (or none with Quiet x2) and still use Voice, depending on how loud the 'sounds' are.
We will do this reversal, effective immediately (so your spells in eagle can be defined by its screech)

As for the Talon question; I am still not convinced about the reasoning, but we will go with what most are saying, so #2 it is, 100 x 100 paces circural regardless of where the wind blows to.

Please ignore above post :slight_smile: