pre game advancement

what rules do we want to have for pre-game post-guantlet advancement?

  • 30 xp/year- no seasonal advanacement
  • seasonal advancement with 2 seasons of 'work' per year with exposure experience only
  • full freedom of seasonal experience with limitations on book availability
  • full freedom of seasonal experience

0 voters

lets put this to a vote

Voted for 30 xp/year, with the caveat that the exact number can be adjusted based on the character's circumstances and can be done season-by-season. For example, Trogdor's magus residing in an Autumn covenant could adjust it to up to 45 points per year.

With the understanding that the level of advancement during the saga would produce results not too divergent from this range of 30-45 points per year.

Just a couple of follow-up questions:

How do you account for the fact that Orien has Book Learner? It seems having a fixed xp for all writes that Virtue out completely.

Also, how do you handle familiars and talismans? It would make sense that Orien would get those over the years. But the fixed xp/year system does not account for that.

I've used two different ways to account for that in the past.

First one is by adding a bonus per year to take that into account. For example, each of the xp-boosting virtues (Book Learner, Good Student and Free Study) gives +5 points per year.

Second one is to describe that actual stuff being done each season, and adding the relevant bonuses for virtues as applicable.

In both cases, talisman and familiar are purchased using lab seasons -- essentially lowering the number of points available for the year by 10 for each season of lab work (minimum 0). You also get the choice between learning spells from points or using lab seasons. By points is not very efficient, so usually make it 2.5 levels by point instead of the standard 1 level by point.

Got it. That makes perfect sense now.

Just let me know how I should make up my character and I'm good to go. I'm just eager to get character generation done so that we can move on to the game itself.

Sorry if my actions have delayed that in any way.

i voted 30 with caveat for virtues that boost added to the total.

Don't be. You did nothing wrong. As I wrote previously, this had not been discussed by the troupe, so of course expectations were widely different for different people.

And we are still discussing it, so don't hurry and make changes to your character just yet. This is still just a proposal at this point.

Let me know cause if that's the case, cause ill have to mod my redcap.

So we really think that the average xp that we'll receive each year will be on the order of 30 xp?

I should have pointed out that this vote does not count caveats- if we end up with 30 xp/year it is straight 30 xp per year, no extra points for book learner, apt student etc.

I'm pretty sure that two of the votes were cast with the intention of including caveats. (Arthur and Severus Snape)

That doesn't sound right. When I voted, I was assuming that some caveats - such as, at the very least, the 2 you pointed out above - would come into play. Not to mention situations where that much XP cannot be awarded due to outside influences or characters just simply not doing enough to earn it.

I would hope that relevant virtues did give a benefit in post-apprenticeship advancement. I am perfectly happy with a simple adjustment for them.
I had assumed as much when I voted.

You can recast your vote, in the hour left, but I stated 30xp/season as per RAW, which does not include such bonuses. Being able to use those bonuses is one of the major benefits to seasonal advancement as written in RAW.

I have extended the voting since apparently a number of people voted based on assumptions that were not in fact part of what they voted for.

Perhaps you could add another choice, of 30 xp/year with caveats? Or change the assumption of the existing choice?

Because it seems clear to me that those of us who voted for this did it with a clear statement that some adjustements could be made to the exact amount of xp/year.

To me that unfairly weights some choices over others. Sure the people with book learner can get more experience reading books- but the guy with indepenant vis source has more vis to study from, the one with gentle gift finds it easier to work with mundane and learn mundane skills. If we are going to use 30xp/season then all virtues are equal in assumption. RAW is either 30xp/season or go through season by season. What about the person who gets more experience from self study or adventures, but those bonuses will generally add to lower totals? The argument for what should get which bonus could be effectively a game unto itself.

Or to put another point on it- there is a terrific library located inside a level 8 faerie regione, so should those with faerie magic also get a bonus? If we want to work all these details out we might as well do seasonal advancement. We can certainly slow seasonal advancement down so we get more people commenting on each season, but if we single out virtues for extra experience then I believe it is only fair to do so via seasonal advancement so everyone can effectively make their case for how their character advances.

At this point, this is becoming too strenuous for my tastes. We're debating the pros and cons of what Virtues should or shouldn't add to XP, as well as what method makes the most sense for awarding XP post-gauntlet. To me, this was decided by the SG at the time the game was set up by his statement that XP will be RAW; that to me meant 30 per year, and the individual Virtues or Flaws that affect this would be in play.

I think I'm going to bow out of this one. I love the idea of Zenobia, and I want to play her. But I don't want to do so mired down by how much XP she is or is not going to get, or if any of her Virtues may or may not impact that amount, or even if she is on par with getting the power of the other characters who went through and got XP post-gauntlet at the time the game started.

Sorry, but it's becoming too tedious to want to continue.

What I said was

which says absolutely nothing about 30xp/season, and certainly nothing about 30 xp with bonus points for certain virtues as per someone else's house rule.

In fact I was following what I stated above before others started to complain that it led to too rapid of advancement. The same people seem to only be willing to continue with the game if the system I stated at the beginning is abandoned in favor of their system which they claim I stated before the game started I would use when I did not.

If this is dragging on it is because I have been more than fair with those who want the campaign to be something other than what I would choose if left to my own devices, while some of them insist that I have to give them more. We can end this debate very quickly if most would prefer to simply let me make the decision.

Gonna sound dickish, but...

Your statement states that we are following the standard Ars Magica advancement system. Which, by the book, is 30 XP post-gauntlet per year. If that's not the standard, then I fail to see what is.