Provencal tribunal

Hi, sounds good! Though I think Criamon dislike faeries in general, and might disapprove of Merinita specifically, though we certainly don't have to hew to stereotypes. :smiley:

Haven't decided yet on final form, waiting to see if other players will join this Tribunal, and what other Magi reside in Bentalone, what its resources and travails are like, pre our joining.

I don't know that they really dislike anything, they just think that beings other than humans are relatively unimportant and uninteresting. That's my take on them, at least.

by RAW the worst the criamon think of the faerie is that is a reflection of the mortal realm or derivative of it and therefore not worth studying, but this is not a universal opinion.

Yeah, they even had a Merinita as a Primus and they're still around... sort of.

@silveroak Gerard is ready for review.

@silveroak I'll add the Stonemason Jerbiton to the wiki as is but will do some modifications and advancement. Will ping you with a link here when he's ready for review.
I have a couple of questions/clarifications already though:

  1. Do you agree stone is a minor magical focus?
  2. Do you agree that Craft: Stonemason covers most activities around building stone buildings? Probably some AL for calculations and we surely need others crafts at the site, but the primary ability would be that craft.
  3. I don't plan to go the Rego craft magic route, but rather use the mundane abilities, supported by magic. See Examples of magical support for a stonemason below. Do the examples seem to be valid? To what degree would finesse still be relevant (although he's not using Rega Craft magic)?
  4. plan for major Driven flaw (architectural masterpiece) and plan to gradually raise the goals. Like he will reach what he was driven towards, multiple times, always finding a new goal, never being contend. Does that fit your interpretation of the flaw?
  5. Would you allow hermetic architecture at gauntlet or initiation pre-game, i.e. during the years after gauntlet? If yes, how does initiation work? Any downside I have to accept and build into the character? If you don't allow it pre-game or maybe irrespective of that I planned a mentor that promised to initiate me into it. Does that work?

Examples of magical support for a stonemason
The following are some ideas for magical support while still basically building with mundane means.

  • MuTe Stone to Clay should allow to build a jointless building, pretty similar to what ReTe or Conjuring the Mythic Tower would do
  • Higher MuTe would allow working with stone as if it was concrete
  • ReTe for getting blocks up to the top of the wall (or MuTe to make them lighter)
  • ReTe to get stone to the building site (over distance)
  • PeTe for excavation work
  • PeTe to ease cutting stone

I think this went unnoticed (probably my fault, didn't originally indicate these were my characters), but I have my magus and companion ready for review.

I can answer 1 since itā€™s part of a discussion I had with Silveroak. Stone is a Major magical Focus as per the list of example Major Magical Foci in the core book.

Oh, missed that. In the saga I designed him for we started with a minor focus in glass and decided for stone later without looking it up again. Still wondering about the RAW ruling, as stone would exclude a lot of other terram: metals, sand, glass, mud, clay, ReTe of inanimate objects, etc.
But fine with me, I'll re-consider glass or upgrading to major focus. Or we should back and forth a definition of minor magical focus: Building (excavation, stone to clay, stone to liquid, ReTe to get stone blocks into position, etc.)

It came up in conversation around my Bjornaerā€™s MMF in Sand & Glass, which I initially wanted to be an mMF in Sand.

The two example MMFs for Corpus, Men or Women, are very extreme and if they werenā€™t in the core book I would never allow them in a game as far too broad. Stone or metal for terram seems much more the correct level for MMFs.

The guideline is that a minor focus should be narrower (less versatile) than a TeFo combo. The major foci in core of Stone and Metal are very versatile. The materials are common and you can do whatever with them.

It is possible that glass has been made minor because the material is so much rarer.

Whether building is a valid minor focus probably depends on how you rule on fringe cases (stone to liquid feels like pushing it), but that is of course for @silveroak to rule on. Ā«Shaping stoneĀ» might be an appropriate alternative. That seems analogous to the core examples of destroying stone and creating metal.

  1. as noted, no- stone is a major focus
  2. yes, craft: stonemason covers most activities around building stone buildings, as well as artwork made of stone. The exception would be building large enough to require an architechture ability to design them- for example cathedrals.
  3. the examples are valid, though cutting with perdo will require more finesse than cutting with re, since per should not allow something to be improved, and containing the spell to allow such fine work will be difficult.
  4. yes
  5. a mentor is fine. I will consider the requirement to initiate it pre-game

What would that ability be, because he is going to build such structures. It's what some stonemasons have done historically, no? Is it Craft: Architecture? Or is it subsumed in Artes Liberalis (if so, is it a valid speciality?)?

My line of thinking was enchanting a chisel to ease cutting stone manually. I was thinking about PeTe without any finesse for that. Just standing there chanting "By request of my control over the Art of Terram, you stone are cut into pieces" I agree is clearly Rego (with finesse).

Do you see a chance to define Building as a magical focus (we could separately see if it's a major or minor one)?

I see that my above examples might be stretching it too thin. What about we make it a lot shallower in Terram, but at the same time spread it over more arts, all focused around building though... Like creating a wooden support structure with Herbam, keeping water out of an excavation site with Aquam, lifting stone blocks to the top of a wall, cutting stone blocks, etc.

Is stone under a Muto Terram effect like Stone to clay still essentially stone and Ā«Shaping stoneĀ» is still applicable? Does this kind of Muto magic actually fall under Ā«Shaping stoneĀ»?

Again, my interpretation is not necessarily that of SG, but I think shaping stone may apply to both ReTe and MuTe, if that was the question. It would not cover every MuTe transformation though.

It was two questions. First, is a MuTe effect like Stone to clay shaping stone in the sense of the minor focus. Second, is any shaping effect on stone that is currently under such a Muto effect still shaping stone and the focus applicable?

If your goal is magic items to aid mundane skills you might consider an mMF in stoneworking tools, if that is allowed. Chisels might be the more specific idea but that's a limited set of ways to work with stone. Also, I don't remember if Foci in items apply to any enchantment of said item in this saga.

Stone to Clay as a conc effect should be within IMHO. Longer durations, I'd think not.
Other shaping spells, I would say the focus applies in the concrete case, but it would not apply when you invent the spell in the lab, because it must be designed for clay rather than stone. Again this is how I would reason.