Questions about making a talisman

I wish to create my talisman, I have decided to do a necklace in white gold with a cedartree framed starruby hanging from it.

Possible Form & Effect bonuses:
Cedar Tree: Mentem (+5), Herbam (+5)
Star Ruby: Conjure & Control Occult Creatures (+5)
Gold: Noboility (+4)

I have:
rego 10, mentem 15 and Magic Theory of 8 (+2 Puissant Ability)= 10
Lab: +5 for Rego +2 Mentem
Intelligence +3
Apprentice intelligence +3
Magic Theory +3
Aura +4

Lab total: 56

Is the planning below correct?

Season 1:
Prepare the item (use of 2 vis) Material: Wood (2) Size: Tiny (x1)
At the same time I attune the Cedar Tree for Mentem (+5)

Season 2:
Instill Aura of Rightful Authority (Rego Mentem 20)
At the same time I attune the cedar tree to Herbam (+5)

Season 3:
I prepare the Star Ruby (use 20 vis) Material Ruby (20), Size tiny (x1)
At the same time I instill the Star Ruby with Control and Conjure occult creatures (+5)

I prepare the gold chain (use 6 vis) Material: Gold (6) Size Tiny (x1)
At the same time I attune the Chain to Nobility (+4)

Season 4:
Now I can start instilling more effects as i please and pay the regular cost for said effects...

is this correct?

Talismans are independent of the shape/form limits on vis, and is prepared/attuned independent of those s/f limits.

Step 1) Obtain an object to be made into your talisman. This cannot have any other magical effects in it at this point, nor may anyone else work on your talisman.

Step 2) Open the device for enchantment, using either (Highest TeFo) or (MTx2), whichever is lower. At the end of this season the device is now your talisman and gains the powers listed in ArM5 pg 98.

Step 3) Instill an effect in it, such as Aura of rightful authority using normal enchantment rules, save that your lab total is at a +5 for working on your talisman. When this instilling is finished, you also gain a single attunement based on the shape/form boni you listed. You gain one for every power instilled, not every season worked although this amount to the same thing.

Step 4) Repeat Step 3 until you are either finished, or run out of room to instill effects. Each effect you instill gains an additional attunement.

Step 5) If your (highest TeFo) is greater than the amount you initially opened the device with, you may spend one or more seasons opening the device again, limited by your (current highest TeFo). Thus after studying and increasing your (highest TeFo) you may at some later point open the device again. Each season you spend doing this also gains an attunement.

Step 6) Smite your foe with your Talisman of Awesomeness! You earned the glory!

To attune an item as your talisman you have to prepare it for enchantment. Preparing it for enchantment is as standard. To prepare a compound item for enchantment you have to open at least the highest component, in this case the tiny star ruby. Once it is opened properly it can be attuned.

It is possible to attune an invested item you have already made as your talisman.
From what your provided, here are the first three seasons for the talisman.
Season 1: Prepare necklace for enchantment, 20 pawns of vim for Star Ruby.
Season 2: attune as talisman, acquire one of the S&M bonuses from components/shape
Season 3: Instill an effect; attune another S&M bonus

You've received two contradictory answers regarding how initially opening the item works. By my reading of the rules, JL's reading is the correct one in that regard.

Since unlike normal items, Talismans can be opened further, though, it's basically going to be the same thing, spread out over a bit more time.

Unless it's different in your campaign or further Material & Shape bonuses have been added, the bonus for cedar is "+5 any effect with Mentem and Herbam requisites" not 2 separate bonuses of +5 Mentem and +5 Herbam. (side note - Should that be He or Me requisites, not and? How many spells/effects out there have both Me and He requisites at the same time)?

Also, unless you have or are planning to get the Great Talisman virtue, you might want to make your talisman more elaborate with more Shape and Material bonuses available - since the Star Ruby already makes the initial opening cost 20 pawns of Vim vis, you're already at your vis/season limit barring certain virtues.

Another question re : S&M bonuses - Do shapes/materials with their own specific bonuses also get the bonuses of the more general shape/material? In this case, does a star ruby also count as a ruby and have those bonuses available as additional possible attunements or would red gold (instead of white) also count as gold?

this [url]]

is a very good thread on talismans. I have found it quite useful.

Bob Dillon

Having re-read the section on Talismans, I agree with JL. I believe I was conflating preparing the item for enchantment with attunement. Another modification to my post is that the item you attune may have a pre-existing magical effect if you instilled it yourself, and that other magi may have worked on it so long as they were lab helpers only.

Sorry for the confusion!

During Season 1, it is not yet a Talisman, so no components are attuned.
Attunement as a Talisman occurs during Season 2. JL is correct, Kuiti Itijin is not.

Also, please note that while you can open only part of a compound device (such as this one), you have to open the most expensive one, according to p. 97.
This would be the gold, (gold, small, for 10x2) if the necklace is sturdy, or the star ruby (precious if not priceless, 15 or 20), if the chain is very fine.
Generally, I'd expect a full necklace to be Small. Fortunatly, you can do this, with your Magic Theory of (effectively) 10, allowing you to handle 20 pawns in a single season.

Yes, most the posts are correct that you can either use 20 or far more (sum of the pieces) pawns of Vis to open it initially. It's not a Talisman yet, so no attunement bonuses.

Another season is needed to attune to the Talisman, actually making it a Talisman. No attunement bonuses yet.

Each season you spend from here on out working on the Talisman (adding effects or increasing its capacity) gives you an attunement bonus. Note that that is each season, not each effect.

As was already suggested, with an effective Magic Theory of 10 or 11 (everyone seems to be saying 10, but I don't see the specialty listed and it might apply) you could have 10 or 11 individual parts making the whole. These would help give S&M bonuses when enchanting it and would give far more options for attunement bonuses. Eventually attunement bonuses tend to overlap so picking up more isn't very handy, but getting to that point requires a good number of individual parts and will take quite a few seasons. But for the lab S&M bonuses stack, being capped by your Magic Theory of 10 or 11; the more the better here. So you really want to follow the earlier advice and have more parts.