Rego Spells & Unexpected Barriers

If an unexpected barrier intervenes in the spell range, a Rego spell...

    1. Goes as far as it can and no more, simply delivering the object to that point.
    1. Goes as far as it can, then the object collides appropriately with the barrier (depending on the velocity given by the Rego.)
    1. Fails completely, and never moves the object.
    1. Other- explain below.

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If a magus casts a spell that Rego's a mundane object from a starting point to "over there" (both within sight), but there is an unseen/unexpected physical barrier, what happens? I can see arguments for each option:1) The spell should be treated as a valid spell of shorter range, since the barrier negates the Rego at that point, and the magic provides no momentum past its effective, actual range. The object never actually connects (significantly) with the barrier.

  1. The spell attempts to give velocity and momentum to the object for its intended range, and the barrier does not change this. The object connects significantly/appropriately at the barrier's boundary.

  2. The spell as defined has both a valid beginning and end point, and if both are not valid, neither is the spell. The object never moves.

  3. (Additional possible result!)Unless specifically prohibited, the magic will attempt to connect the start/end points as best it can, and will find a way around the barrier to the full range of its affect, even if that sends the object in an unintended/undesired path or direction.The situation would arise only very rarely, but I could see it happening with an illusion, mental attack/confusion on the part of the mage, sudden blindness/darkness, a rapidly changing environment* and/or other possibilities.

(* For sake of this discussion, the barrier exists before the spell is cast.)

I'd say a 2 in general.. but.. some of those examples are -very- different... an invisible barrier is no barrier to the senses of a mage, and so the object would just keep going and bounce off it

Suddenly darkness.. .. well.. I'd say it kept going anyway, you've already given where it's going, and the magic has taken effect.. . if however you needed to -concentrate- on the effect.. it's going to stop, you can't sense where to send it anymore

Rapidly changing environment isn't a problem either.. the rock would continue on its path, but again, just bump into the environment..

However.. a mental attack on the mage, to make him see something else -would- cause problems.. .. I'd say there's a high chance that the spell just fizzles.. because he's trying to get the object to do things that just aren't valid.. (again, depending on circumstances.. if he just tries to throw a rock in 'that direction' .. it will go that way, if indeed it can.. .. if however he tries to throw it 'at that pink dragon' .. .. it's going to sit there ^^)

I'm counting these as just movement spells though.. teleportation spells might get into a -whooole- new set of problems ^^ .. and in general, tend to follow scenario 3.. they just go there.. presuming you can sense it and it's not a trick

I assume you mean some spell like wielding the invisible sling or the unseen porter. These spells move objects, they don't allow onjects to pass effortlessly through other things so I'd say that the objects collide with our unforssen barrier, perhaps with a great thwaking sound. I don't believ that having a target within range and the bussines about a resisted spell always hitting is going to apply here. The spell is moving objects and not giving the objects whatever crazy new properties that they need in order to get to their destination.

On the other hand, if you are talking about a range sight version of leap of homecomming then I don't see any problems with passing through a wall or two.

(The "sudden blindness/darkness" would create the "unseen/unexpected" element, not the physical barrier itself.)

I see 2 types of "Teleportation"- one is like The Flash or certain hollywood Vampires- moving quicker than can be perceived (absurdly fast but otherwise mundane movement), and another is "Star Trek" t-port, where the intervening distance is never actually encountered*. I can see Rego providing either effect- the former would indeed have Form requirements to pass thru barriers (and would be about 1 magnitude less than "true" t-port, but with additional dangers/limitations.)

(* It is not defined as such, but I assume Leap of Homecoming et al falls in the "Star Trek" t-port category.)

Why would it differ if it's true teleportation and not movement? A single unifying approach/solution would be more elegant, but perhaps not possible- or perhaps not necessary, if canon only treats it as "true" (Star Trek) teleportation.

Since we're on the subject, what if the barrier to a Rego teleportation were to be at the end point, not intervening?

I would go with Newton's laws of motion on this one. (I'm sure you already know, but here they are.)

An object in motion will remain in motion unless acted upon by another force.
Force equals mass times acceleration.
For every action there is an equal but opposite reaction.

Unless the object was moving slowly with the mage's concentration. If the barrier broke his concentration it would fall like a rock. If he can keep his concentration, the object should avoid the barrier. Really, all your answers seem like they would work depending on the duration of the spell and the force of the moving object.

Alas, there is no such thing as momentum in Mythic Europe. An object is in motion because a force is acting on it (which is why wards stop ranged attacks by creatures they ward against). If the force ceases, the object stops. Similarly, there is no symmetry in actions, which is why if a magically created bridge falls on a magus, he gets protected by his Parma, but if he falls onto the same bridge, he does not.

I was thinking of parma as a force. It would apply to the same laws of physics as everything else and have equal or greater force than the object being thrown or the falling bridge. While no one has written out the laws of physics, they still exist and work the same.
If the object is moving throught the air under the mage's conscious power than it would not be subject to the laws of physics, but if his spell was only momentary to get it moving, it's just a mundane missle flying through the air and physics apply the same as if it hits a barrier made of parma or stone or an invisible wall.

If the examples given were for Wielding the Invisible Sling, I would say 2 (You throw the object, and something gets in the way, and >POW< gets hit by a small, fast moving object... Or has it stop dead at it's magic might. I would think that this would happen with a Rego "Move" type spell.

I would have to sit and think a moment for a Rego spell that dealt with intangible things...


No, they don't. The physics of Mythic Europe are different from real world physics. No inertia nor vacuum, species carry perceptions, the Earth at the center of the universe, humor imbalances and bad air cause diseases, etc. Takes a while to get used to. :slight_smile:

If it were so, Parma wouldn't protect against Rego-based attacks. The only way around that is to drop an object on top of your target's head, letting gravity take over. When you fire an arrow, the force you exerted keeps applying the arrow after it has left the bow until it reaches the target. It's not just an initial impuls. Likewise, momentary Rego do carry the projectile right up to the target. If the magic stops, the object instantly stops, period.

But that's not how Rego works! A "momentary" Rego spell (of time undefined btr) exerts a force not only for a temporal duration, but also only for the "range" of the spell (the time/distance not being at all related to final speed or force). So, an arrow shot over a wall will travel further than an arrow "rego'd" over the same wall (even if the Rego were to move "faster"), because the latter will stop as soon as it is out of sight (without AC's or etc.) and/or the spell Range ends.

But these discussions, while of some interest, are heading off topic.

No opining on what happens for a Leap of Homecoming if the target location is occupied?
No views on whether a "lesser teleportation" is a valid Hermetic concept?

If anyone watches battle star gallactica, they deal wth jumps through space by using a co-ordinate system much like the one discribed in ancient magic. It's a true teleport not just a really fast movement. if your co-ordinate is wrong bad things happen. There was a scene at the end of season 2.5 that had one of the ships jump inside a mountain. This is what I'd envision with a Leap of Homecomming gone wrong.

If you have trouble with your magi jumping all over the place have one appear with a small tree going through his leg. After a few times of this happening they may spend the time to improve the spell with herbum/terrum effects to pevent such mishaps, or they may start walking again, allowing you to bring back the random mob of pesants with pitchforks chasing them down.

  1. thown stuff stops when it hits the barrier (f not enough penetration to bypass it, that is.

  2. teleported stuff does not teleport at all if it has to do so across a ward boundary. Othwerwise magical wards to keep people enclosed inside would be worthless pieces of crap. :slight_smile: And circular "energy" prisons are cool, so that cannotbe allowed to happen :wink: In fact my players have a powerful fire elemental trapped in under the covenant susing this method. They are still unaware of it, though :wink:



Leap of Homecoming isn't physical ala 'Star Trek' as you put it. Consider: If you are out and about, you can use the AC to your Sancta to get yourself into your lab. The rules DO NOT make any provision for being blocked by physical objects..hence, this makes sense.
As for Agnars thoughts on where you end up...hmmm

Thanks for warning other Gallacticans on the spoiler :imp: :imp: :imp:

Now if I had said the main ship, or the presidents ship, or some thing like that... You get worse spoilers then what I wrote by watching normal commercials.

Which I don't.

No need explaining it. It doesnt remedy anything.

And that spoils things... how? Which ship? Who is on the ship? What is the situation?

The fleet jumps, and something goes wrong with one of the ships- like, what, you didn't expect that in BG? :unamused:

Warning- Spoiler- there are also Cylon spies, and big battles, and people die (or not!) and... stuff. All pretty good, too.

Thanks for the input, Agnar. :wink:

There is no momentum in Hermetic magic, so I think the rego spell would deposit the target at the edge of the barrier.

True, but the reason the spell would stop would have to be that the magic stopped, not that the object ran into something.

Or are you suggesting that, even with a spell that "tries" to continue Rego'ing the object beyond the barrier, it has no force behind the movement? That would ~seem~ to run counter to certain Rego damage spells.

Altho' it would be an interesting perspective...

So "frakking" what? :slight_smile: It's reasonable etiquette if going off topic, especially on a season of a running series (which by the way takes its time reaching the European DVD-markets), to at least toss in a spoiler alert. No one can really judge whether an information is a spoiler to them but people themselves.

I brought awareness that that was at least a spoiler to me (and some others - but that's another story). Nothing else. You can ignore it or you can kindly consider it next time you're in similar situation, but there is no need to throw more BS or rolling of eyes around.