Silent Casting, Voice Range and Bears

In my new Saga, one of the players is Bjornaer and he has both Subtle Magic and Quiet Magic x2 so that he can work spells as a bear, but he cannot speak as a bear, which is his intention.

Of course, he has spells which are voice range.

Can he cast such spells in bear form and roar, casting the spell as far as the roar? In other words, is the "voice" range dictated by the words of the spell casting itself, or can he make any vocal noise?

Since he spent 3 virtues on it, and could have simply taken unbound tongue to solve his problem, but specifically wanted to be unable to speak as a bear, I am inclined to let him roar his pilum of fire. But if there is an official ruling, I would be interested in reading it.

Doh... edited for completely misunderstanding the OP... :blush:

One thing is the Effective Range of the "Voice" and another the requeriment of words. One magic item that produces sound (magically or because to be one music instrument) can have Voice range, equally than a user can varry the same effect with his voice if the magic item is mute.
That is exactlly like if you cast one spell with normal words without any virtue or magic ability taht permit cast it without penalties, the penalties are substracted of the casting total but if you talk or shout, the range Voice isn't reduced.
So, your Bjornaer can cast spells without penaltie, and if he roars can use his Voice to use his Voice Spells.

I was just wondering: If we was a bumblebeee Bjornaer (or some other animal unable to make loud sounds), what would his voice range be?

It´s Range Voice, not Range "Words" so no specific words needed.

A bumblebee Bjornaer would have a fairly short range. Same with a Sight range for a mole bjornaer


I think that the normal interpretation of Quiet Magic is that if you do not use the words, then you are silent, and so Voice Range is effectively 0.

However, I think it would be perfectly reasonable to say that for this magus, if he roars when casting, then Voice Range is the range of his roar. But I wouldn't give him the +1 Casting Bonus for a Loud roar.

Take a look at the Mute Flaw. It states :

Based on that precedent, I would feel quite comfortable ruling that a bear's roar counts when defining a Voice spell's range, provided the magus can cast the spell without words.

+1, its been my thought from reading too. In fact any sound evoked by the caster counts imho.

So, if a bumblebee's voice range is reduced, what about the howling of a wolf?
voice range = miles and miles?

That would be a very good reason to play a Bjornaer magus.

But unless you're using sensory magic, you'd still need to ba able to sense/see your target.

Yes, under the right circumstances R: Voice tones into R: Sight, so what?

Besides, the Bjornear can't have familiars - excellent reason for not playing a bjornear :-/

Precisely. Add Spectacle mysteries, and you're set... :slight_smile: I don't really have a problem with it.

Or you can pick up Sorcerous Music (from Performance Magic, TMRE) which also specifically say that "the spell carries as far as the music [...] for some instruments, this may be a long way."

Mind you, instead of picking Sorcerous Music or the Deft Art or Quiet Magic that you need to pull this off, you can just learn the spells with Sight Range to begin with, maybe backing that off with one of the many virtues that help in learning or casting spells... and as a bonus, you don't wake up the whole countryside when casting a long distance spell :wink:

But you start 15 lower when in animal form: -10 for Words:None and an extra magnitude for Range:Sight.

Subtle Magic and Performance Magic (Animal Sounds) should allow for roaring Voice Range, making Quiet Magic unnecessary for that concept. Heck, you could even dump Subtle Magic and go with (Animal Sounds and Gestures). Can you imagine a magus flapping his arms while chirping away? :laughing:

Mmm, probably... :wink: :mrgreen:

Anyway, back to serious, can you replace the words with animal sounds? IIRC the answer is no, but personally at least i think a spell could be created for being used like that, but of course it would count as no words when cast in human form instead(unless even then you can imitate your animal form).

Sorcerous Music: you can replace words with flute sounds. And it is the same spell you cast with voice and gesture that you do with flute notes and movements. Your restrictions are unnecessary.

Now the question is: would the Troupe accept Bear Dancing (and singing) as some sort of Performance Magic.

Is Sorcerous music an option or a Virtue however?

And not "my" restrictions. It´s just what i can recall from RAW.

Shouldn´t be too farfetched really.

My argument was that Performance Magic (Bear Dancing and Singing) would allow unpenalized casting in bear form. If you don't have that Virtue, then your restrictions are ok.

Was basing myself on NO virtues used...