How about trade offs, because, as you said, I'm a narrativist. The ReCo spell is lower level, a bit more reliable, but not as fast (15mph). The Cr(Re)Au spell is almost three times as fast, but a bit more of a bumpier ride. Compare them to an automobile, like a sedan to a sports car.
Totally cop to it. I'm a narrativist. I'm interested in the story. The questions of how something gets done is largely a forgone conclusion in Ars. The why and the aftermath are much more interesting places to explore anyway. Trying to balance the Arts with respect to one another is, to me, a Sisyphean task. Ars is too complex to try and balance, but I do use rubrics to measure what is reasonable to put things in perspective, for things to make sense, at least in my mind. You want a character that can fling something big out of gauntlet, go for it. Now what. What else is he going to do? The PeVi specialist doesn't lay waste to every creature he spies, because some of those might be tied to vis sources, and he needs to exercise prudence. How fast he kills something is almost immaterial to me, since a similarly powered Ignem or Auram master could kill something about as quickly. In that respect they are balanced (immunity aside).
That's a bit of a strawman, isn't it? The game will never be balanced. Certainly you and I are not going to agree on what is balanced that is clear. I play in games where I know they have different sensibilities than I do, but I don't see any of those troupes striving towards let's get all the Arts balance, and then let's balance out combat so that grogs and companions aren't so weak.
A mastered spell out of combat is cast using a non botching stress die, i.e. a quality die (as defined in 4th Edition). The quality die should not have been excised from 5th edition, as there are many places where a non botching stress die is rolled, and that doesn't roll off the tongue quite as well...
Won't answer, have already answered and it's sterile to keep going on.
Never said that ou were, said that you were looking at it from that point of view.
Me too.
Out of subject.
My problem is not only with players doing it, but why PNJ's wouldn't ?
Sorry if you don't like it but combat is part of the game and being able to defeat Faery kings (I speak about the might 50 one not the cheated might 90 ones that the authors were forced to put in the book because of the rules discrepencies) too easily is not a good thing for the story...
Again I am not interested in you telling me how to play as a game master, i am interested in talking about rules no stories made to not use them.
No, he is not able to do it as easily or as universally.
No it's not.
Perfection is unattainable but we can try.
We can't agree because you keep talking about stories in balance issues, that's a flaw in you reasoning. You keep saying that it's not a problem because you can go around and not have the magus do is thing, then why does this rule exist if when it's used stories must avoid it ?
And you keep ignoring my arguments so I repeat myself : I am not trying to balance arts one against another, i am balancing a PeVi Guideline against the environment of the magi for them not to be able to wipe out the floor with too powerful stuff. That is a necessity for stories to be interesting.
Even not using or avoiding the problem like you do is a kind of HR.
OK, i am stupid and play bad roleplaying games and you are great and play good ones
Could you please stop pretending you hold the Mighty Stick of Truth ?
Oh and Grog and companions are supposed to be weak, that's part of the game : magus are not supposed to be able to wipe the floor with faery kings that never was part of it.
And again, i am not striving to balance all the Arts, just saying that one of the guidelines in one of them is not good... But yeah keep making me say things I didn't that's nice.
I am a SG, i don't hear my players telling me I am bad at it, i weave stories like you do... So could you please be a little more considerate ?
My experience is vastly different than yours. I don't fix anything until I see it being broken or it's really unclear. I stipulate that it's possible for the PeVi specialist to defeat creatures with might slightly easier than any TeFo combination.
I concede the argument, Doogy. I never said you were a bad SG, nor did I say you said I was a bad SGs, nor did I think I even implied it.
Sorry I snapped, you obviously are not interested as much as i am in tweaking the game.
I hope you won't hold it against me in future arguments.
We agree that PeVi is best for destroying creatures where we disagree is that it bother me and not you
I enjoyed most of that talk (except the end) and I thank you for that.
As see your point, and I understand it, but, as discussed before, this contradicts LoM (fine, it's a HR), but also creates inconsistencies.
Either the spell occurs at best at the same time as the opposing action, and you can't teleport/fire a PoF before you get sliced, just (to quote you) "at the exact same moment the sword slices your belly open"
Or the spell can occur before the action is completed, and you can teleport/Fire your PoF before this happens.
I can see a ruling saying that some momentum is still carried, so that you still takes some damage, but then, it shouldn't convey the same force, and the damage should be lessened.
It ignores PeCo "disintegrate" spells: You can teleport before the grog strikes you, but you can't disintegrate him before this happens?
Likewise, it ignores that not all actions are instantanenous, so under your ruling, one can create a wall to stop a running grog before he's reached the Portal that'll teleport him, but can't kill him before, only as just as he teleports. IIRC, normal spellcasting also takes one round, it's not "zap", so why can't a magus be interrupted in the middle of his spellcasting*?. And so on.
IMO, you'd maybe be better of either disallowing fast-casting entirely, or, probably better, just the fast-casting mastery (If players spont offensive spells, they won't spont much, or not for long).
Replied here, as this has nothing to do with spells that reduce might, nor even really the discussion Doogy and I were having generally about story. We did touch on fast casting, but it was because that fast casting was used in Doogy's example and was based on several assumptions that I happened to disagree with or looked to be house rules.
The latter. If you want a an anti-demon-field, add linked trigger and unlimited uses and use recursion. e.g.
Cross of the Devil's bane
This object is a medium sized wooden cross. When placed in a room and activated it continuously casts "Purge the Chamber of Demon's" (destroys 5 Might, Penetration 16) with each casting triggering on the previous one.
The activation trigger is a short prayer.
Effect:Purge the Chamber of Demons (as Demon's Eternal Oblivion with R: Touch and T: Room so effect is -1 magnitudes) (Pe Vi 10), Penetration 16 (+8), Linked trigger (+3), Unlimited uses (+10). Total effect level = 31.
