Summoning a Sword Spell?

Hi all.

Have been trying to work out a spell for summoning a sword, and then having it return after the fight. I've come up with...

Summon the Loyal Steel
ReTe 30

R: Arc, D: Conc, T: Ind
Summons one metal weapon over any distance which you have previously fixed as an arcane connection. Once you stop concentration on the spell, the weapon returns to where it last was.
(Base 5, +4 Arc, +1 Conc)

Does that seem right? The Base of 5 is really Base 3 (move dirt in an unnatural fashion) plus 2 for metals.

My goal would be to have this spell bound into his tailsmen and have it maintain concenreation...

Any mistake, corrections, advice on this?

Cheers

Kal

I would offer no concentration bonus. Rather, using the sword in combat does not require any concentration roll, as this is what the spell is designed to do. Getting hit or casting another spell will require a concentration roll though, and for that their should be no bonus. I reccomend Mastering the spell with Imperturbable Casting (adding your Mastery to the Concentration roll).

However, if enchanted into a talisman that maintains concentration, this becomes a moot issue. That seems like the preferred way to go.

Cool, thanks Marko. I have removed the sentence about the concentration.

Kal

I would make the base level a bit higher, considering that the guideline for instant transportation of humans (ReCo) has a base level of 35. Moving something in an unnatural way seems more like levitation than teleportation, YMMV though.

I'd also say that banishing the sword back to its original location would require another spell, as the spell effect is simply moving the sword.

Finally, if you're gonna enchant it as a power in an item, I'd suggest checking the level for casting tool enchantements, in the Verditius chapter of the HoH:MC. If memory serves, it was possible to enchant a casting tool so that it would be summoned and unsummoned to the owner's side upon command.

At first, I looked at the ReCo guidelines, but those are moving the caster to the Arcane Connection, where as this is moving the arcane connection to the caster, so i figured the +4 mags for range took account of that. If not, the effect is gonna be somewhere around 50-60....

The conc duration is meant to represent that the summon is temperory - the spell is keeping the sword from its original location (like an elastic band pulled), not actually moving it to the caster (it also means it returns to where it was last, even if its been stolen.....).

Kal

You're right. Sorry. I feel quite stupid right now...

I realized what you were going for, it just seems a bit non-hermetic, but that's just me. Anyway, if I were the SG, I'd require one more magnitude for the "elastic band" effect.

There is one catch: It is level 35 to move an individual of corpus. Someone much smaller requires less. You can get a -1, -2 or -3 in magnitudes for less than individual size (such as baby would be -3 magnitudes or only only level 20)

A sword is less than the base ind of metal though how much less is uncertain.

Ladyphoenix, i'm not sure about your point of corpus able to be decreased.

THe base magnitude is 0 for size (ind), and ind cover all human up to +1. So the babies.

I do agree Sol that the elastic band effect is somewhat odd within hermetic contexts - however, a simple summon would actually be a magnitude less, as it would only be D: Mom, the conc already increases it by a magnitude...

I'm uncertain how I would go about sending the sword away with a seperate spell, I'd need to send an arcane connection (the sword), to another arcane connection (the storage place)....which is getting complicated :frowning:

As to sizes, the metal level of terram is smaller than basic terram - a cubic foot for base metals, and precious metals are a tenth of that - tho a sword isnt a cubic foot in mass, in length, it is more, so the base size seems appropirate.

Also, I'm sure I've read somewhere that you can not reduce magnitudes lower than their base guidelines, just cant remeber where - probably in the size text box in the core im guessing....

Kal

The size of a spell can affect everything up to its size. You can devise spells for smaller sizes though (a spell to affect an infant (size -3) would be lower level but would not affect a young child (size -2) or older).

If you look in the spell guidelines about size in the RAW it talks about smaller than normal sizes and lower spell levels because of it.

Quotes?
It's the exact opposite of what i think... i'm choked of being unaware of that.

Yeah, I saw that. Which is why I suggested just a +1 magnitude for the "elastic band".

Things would be quite easier if you were summoning and banishing your talisman, as you always have an arcane connection to it...

Anyway, I'd say you have to have an arcane connection to the sword to summon it, and an arcane connection to its repository to banish it back.

The simplest solution would be to create a temporary sword with CrTe. But since it's a pretty obvious idea, I'm guessing you have a specific sword (enchanted, probably) that you want to be able to summon.

Actually, the idea of this spell was to go with a sword crafted by a Verditus with the Item Quality Virtue - +4 Atk, or +3 Def, and it would not be limited by magic resistence...which is my other concern for my 'version' of the summons - the sword is under a magical effect, so it should probably be effected by magic resistence, so your versions of 2 seperate spells would likely be better for my concept...

Kal

You need an arcane connection to the sword... maybe you count in this case if it is a connection to you. But you could use this to summon any AC to you that you know about, made of metal of course.

Could you give me a page reference? I was having a discussion with my storyguide about this recently, and he ended up deciding on only a -1 magnitude. I'd love to throw this back in his face . . . er. . . I mean use this to bolster my argument.

The targets and sizes box on page 113 specifically says no.

"However, it is not possible to invent lower level spells that affect smaller targets; the level of the spell to affect the base target is an absolute lower limit."

I like the idea of the spell. The elastic-band effect is, it is true, not a standard Hermetic duration, but it also breaks no limits. I think only the most determined would argue against the sword not having even a tenuous arcane connection to the place where it was stored and from which it was recently summoned. One might argue the traces of the spell still link the two locations, for example. and that is enough.

As such, I'd keep the concentration duration, add a magnitude (or two, depending on taste) for the rubber band, and not require concentration checks for combat-with-swords related tasks. I would, however, also require experimentation in the seasons inventing the effect.

That would be a good solution, unless he's planning to go against magi: then it's that pesky little pink dot all over again...

I don't think this works. Your base effect is too low. The base effect you have is the one for moving a sword around, not teleporting it. The range is the distance between the caster and the sword (at the time of casting) not the distance that the spell will move the sword.

You want to teleport a sword an unlimited distance. Although there is no ReTe guideline for this, the ReCo guideline for teleporting a person, to a place that you have an Arcane Connection to, is 35.

So if you wanted to teleport your sword from your hand to your tower, then the spell would be:
ReTe 40
R: T, D:M, T:I
(Base 35, +1 Touch)

If you wanted to teleport your sword from your tower to your hand, then the spell would be.
ReTe 55
R: A, D:M, T:I, ritual
(Base 35, +4 Arcane)
(Note that this becomes a ritual, which is a problem).

You could make the spells a lower base, by limiting the range. If they only work when you are within the covenant, then the Base is only 20 (teleport something a distance of 500 paces).

I would argue that this would be one of the times that affecting metal wouldn't add magnitudes. But if you thought that it did, the effects would all be two magnitudes higher.

Having a non-standard rubber band effect of "Concentration" duration seems fine, but that shouldn't change the base effect. So a rubber band version would be:
ReTe 60
R: A, D:M, T:I, ritual
(Base 35, +4 Arcane, +1 Conc)
(plus any magnitudes that you think that the rubber band deserves, if any).

You might be better off with a concentration duration CrTe effect to make a sword as required?

I like your version the best of them all. As far as the problem of it being a Ritual, this is not a problem if investing it in your Talisman because it falls under the rule of being a ritual only because of the high level, an exception allowed by raw. And as a Talisman, you are always considered to be in "Touch" Range with it no matter where it is.

So as a pair of talisman enchantments, it would be...

ReTe 45 Summon Talisman Sword
R: Touch, D:Mom, T:Ind
(Base 35, +1 Touch) +10 Unlimited Use

ReTe 45 Send Sword Home
R: Touch, D:Mom, T:Ind
(Base 35, +1 Touch) +10 Unlimited Use

No need for a "rubber band" style effect doing it this way. If you really want to, make it D: Concentration and add one (or more) magnitudes. The disadvantage of doing this is the classic "pink dot" conundrum as mentioned above. Enchanting it as two effects is by far more advantageous.