Table Talk - Development

I use it...or have used, or will use it ("Tenses are hard!") No reason to update Fédora, since she's moved, and can't really do anything with Vibria until she returns.

I use it (or have used it) for Carmen & Roberto. Carmen does need to be updated. For Roberto, I am waiting on City of Brass before making future plans.

I now know it exists and may well use it in the future! I'll have to keep track of development somehow, after all.

I use it, just haven't thought about things in a while

This is just priceless. Thanks, PB!

Hi!

Some little rules tidbit.

1) Vocis

While looking at Vocis for what he can do / In what directions I can send him, I noticed that he had learned, in Winter and Spring 1230, 2 Terram spells he couldn't have learned because of his Terram deficiency. I'd have... lack of words... ignored it, save that, due to that same deficiency, he also has no hope of casting them: Best bet is Sta 01 + Re 10 + Te 05 + Aura 05 + Die 6 = 26/2 = 13 vs lvl 25...

So what do I do? Do I left them as is, even if they're useless? Do I scrap them? Or can I swap them for another lab activity?

I'd prefer to swap them, since it is just a burden due to a misstake, but, well, whatever.


2) Excellent Items

I had missed this, but then, so has everyone else. City and Guild specifies that Excellent Items are generaly made for a specific person or purpose. Superior Items have no such specifications. Skimming through BSS: MA, I noticed this is further clarified: An excellent item is made for someone, and only provides the full bonuses to that person, acting instead as a Superior one for anyone else. For exemple, an Excellent Armor will be custom-made for the Roberto, in order to provide greater protection and make him more impressive. If Wirth puts it on, the tailored bits won't fit, so it'll just give +1 soak, and won't make him more impressive (I'd say he looks ridiculous, but bear with me).

This has an implication, in that Draganna can still mass-produce generic superior swords, but she can't mass produce generic excellent ones. She needs to craft one for grog A, one for grog B...
This changes almost nothing for Andorra's soldiers, save that

  • We can't sell "generic" excellent swords. However, since these become more precious (You can't just pick your father's clothes, you need to have one made expressively for you if you want to look great), we can get specific contracts from, say, the Count of Toulouse
  • Once Draganna is gone, the supply dies out: Any new covenfolk picking a Draganna Sword would only get an Superior Item.

We can HR this, or not.
I happen to like this, since this puts back the "custom" aspect of the greatest armors and weapons ("Vivemort is a good sword, but it only shows its full potential in Damien's hands") , while also meaning that modern craftsmen won't suffer from the "books problem" as in "Why, in its centuries of history, has Mega-Rich covenant X never outfitted its soldiers better so that Craftwoman Y is useless".

I think your confusing two categories of items. Excellent items do have "Excellent items are generally made for a specific person or purpose. ", but its never said to be anything more than a generality. Presumably because an excellent quality item is fairly difficult to make. Either requiring someone talented enough to have endless requests, or a dedicated effort of several crafty people. The next section, Wondrous items however, most certainly do only function for a specific person having "A wondrous item can only be used by the person for whom it was crafted."

That said, it seems a reasonable house-rule that at least for certain items that Excellent Quality items are limited to a specific person or user. Clothes, armor, decorations etc. Actually it makes sense for superior items too. Stealing a superior picture of blood sacrifice will not let you use it to effectively spruce up your Church. Nor will wearing armor or clothes sized for someone else be ideal.

Unless I totally missed something, which happens.

For the Terram spells, Vocis has a Familiar and an Apprentice that would have boosted his Lab Total. As for casting them, perhaps he was planning to depend on an Aura and/or other modifiers. Or maybe he wanted the (+Magnitude) bonus for an enchantment that is similar to the spell.
So it may not be a mistake, we just don't know what Fightmaster was planning.

As for Item Quality...
I do not have that book. Instead I have Lords of Men, which does not mention those extra details. I am not opposed to reconsideration, and it wouldn't be a big impact. Donna (not Draganna, she is the teacher), Donna would take everyone's body measurments and it would all be customized anyway.

So I've narrowed it down to the Redcap or the Dragon idea, more detailed character concepts

Dragon: Well, according to RoP:M she would probably need to be classified as a drake. I was thinking one that expelled some sort of toxin breath. Because toxins are fun! A drake of dank rotting soil and dirt. I'm not sure if that would fit with the local dragons though. Size of a horse, able to shift into human form for normal interactions of course. Wishes to adventure to make her fortune! The covenant attracts her because of its wealth, its access to knowledge and the tendency for interesting adventures!

GtG

Keep in mind that Vocus needs to hit 70/71 to learn the spells he indicated in the spring and 60/61 in the Winter, because his lab total is halved. This is why Deficient Art is so bad, it cuts the value of everything else associated with the Art. It's more bad than Affinity Art or Puissant Art is good.
Given his stats above, of ReTeAura of 20, that would mean his Int+Magic Theory +Familiar + Apprentice + Lab bonuses need to be at least 50/51. For PeTeAura of 17 it means he would have to have the rest of the bonuses equate to 44. That's a pretty tall order for Apprentice, Familiar and lab bonuses to fill, even including an insane work schedule.

Careful, Items of Quality are a Verditius thing, I don't think you meant that, but it's certainly a term used by Verditius and Valdarians alike.

Concerning Vocis...
We still don't know the particulars of his plan or his math. I think maybe he divided the Form in half instead of the total. Whar are the spells and their levels exactly? Are they useful to the covenant and his presence as an NPC? If so, I favor keeping them and chalk it up to Twilight (sprinkling Warping points as needed). The seasons instead correspond to "Tremere stuff".
As for items...
I should have said "high quality items" and not "Items of Quality". Thank you for the correction.

Concerming Companion concepts...
A draconic companion is an interesting idea. As for type, the region is habbitat to a wide variety. Fire Drakes, Wyvers, Vibrias, Storm Wyrms, Herensuge, and more. Fire Drakes are predominant in the closer regional area, byt Wyverns are also common.
There are several ways to carry this out. A full on magic beast is one way. Or you could be Magic Kin or be a human with Magic Blood. The latter varient could be combined with being a Redcap.
I don't reccommend the swamp wyrm idea.

More about Vocis...

Totaling in his Apprentice, Familiar, and Lab, I get...
ReTe42
PeTe39
I looked up his Terram spells, and presuming he was working from Lab Text...
ReTe10 Invisible Sling of Vocis is well within his range.
ReTe25 Ward vs Wearons, it is just outside his range. Needs 8 more points. Possible with Experimentation but not in the same seasom as the Sling.
And the PeTe spell is farrr beyond him, but possible from Good Twilight of 6 Warping points.

However...
In my opinion an NPC Vocis is not in urgent need of any of these.

Yes.
As I was telling, that sentence was clarified in BSS: MA as being more than fluff, but actual rules.

As shown above, even in Andorra's powerful Aura, with his best TeFo combo, he most than often fails on the lowest of the two. Not just spends fatigue, but fails.
So he has 2 spells (Hauberk of Sublime Lightness and Ward against Weapons) he couldn't have learned, and can't expect to really cast.

This is for Excellent Items (Sword +3 to Atk and Dmg, if you want) made by craftsmen, not for Items of Quality.
And we agree about Donna (If anything, it makes her more precious since we need her for any new person we want to outfit).

Yes, it is a fine idea :smiley:
Really, I wanted to do one "little bro/sis" to Vibria, but, well...

Oh, yes, it's not a big deal, just something I can do while I'm at it.

Don't stop on my account. I was stoked when I first saw that concept. (In fact, I think my first thought was, "Wonder if we can make them related somehow?")

Well, the problem ain't the statin, I can do it, even if it takes time, the problem is the playing :-/

So I have an idea for a companion, partly inspired by the CoB thread. A Sahir! A diplomat to the Order of Hermes. While the Order probably wouldn't let go of secrets and wouldn't be expected too, the Order is rather agressive when it comes to recruiting mages so shouldn't they be recruiting the Sahir's? Anyway thoughts? Are any existing characters opposed to Sahir's?

If there are issues the Redcap idea has assembled itself well too, so don't feel pressured to say yes.

Surprisingly, I had a glimmer of a character idea whole glancing at that thread, based on this story-line from The Wotch. Basically, a djinn whose powers either never fully developed or who lost her powers for some reason, and either way has to learn to make her way in the world of the sons of Adam. Don't know if I want to do anything with it (part of me does) or how I would even stat it. But there it is.

A Sahir would be a magus level character or an outright magus. There are Hermetic Sahir present in Iberia and even an Islamic covenant in Granada called Estancia es Karida.

The Crescent and Cradle book has both Gifted, and unGifted Sahir's. The unGifted ones only have the abilities they got from virtues.