Table Talk - Development

[Asilano]

Hello, welcome. I'm the resident newbie here! So I'm going to ask the newbie question - what's a Pralician?

As for Antoine's research, I'll drop the idea about the perfect memory spell, since no-one seems to really understand it (I'll pretend that guideline doesn't exist). But I think I will have Antoine experiment in the CrIm season, to see if he can learn an extra spell from Lab Text (I presume I can apply the experimentation just to one of my activities?). I don't have my table of extraordinary results to hand, so I'll do that in the next couple of days.

[Pralix]

You have hundreds of posts more than I do!

A Pralician is an ex Misc Magus from HoH:S, p. 126f.

Basically, they have an ability that allows them to see magic/Vis/The Gift and a focus on dealing with hedge magic. They traditionally help hedgies join the order. They team up perfectly with House Flambeau: They ask nicely about joining with a snickering Flambeau adding: "or die!"
Using their ability is a hard to prove High Crime (scrying).

My character wants to legalize the traditions powers.

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Asilano

Hello, welcome. I'm the resident newbie here! So I'm going to ask the newbie question - what's a Pralician?

Pralixians are like the recruiters at the wizards' job faire that are, like, "Look. I like you. I think you'd be a stand-up addition to our [strike]company[/strike] [strike]cult[/strike] organization, and I can help you fit in so you can be the best wizard you can be. Because...well, you see that redhead over there? Carnifex? He really doesn't like people who don't want to join, and frankly I'd just as soon he not get involved."

[Marko_Markoko]

Pralicians are descendants of the lineage of Pralix. She was Tytalus' apprentice, and the one who formed House Ex-Miscellanea. So they are the only Latin/classical magi of a house of hedgies.

And you missed my point! It wasn't a challenge. I said it was refreshing for a female character to be played by an actual female. I am weary of crossgendered characters. There is no challenge.
But play whatever your heart truly desires. The troupe will advise you as to what we find acceptable and what we feel may be too munchkin.

I should also mention that Ken K (Ovara) has recovered his typing powers. He is one of the first original players of this saga, but he has never actually made a character. He has always just played NPC's. He was the original voice of the firedrake trio. Not sure what he wants to do, if anything. But old players are always welcome back. I will warn everyone he is a flagrant munchkin and admits it, so NPC characters may be what he feels more comfortable playing.

[Marko_Markoko]

And I want tro mention, the one time Roberto ever tried the "Join or Die" routine, everyone yelled at me. So, take it for what that is

[Asilano]

@Pralix

You have hundreds of posts more than I do!

Posts, yes. But this is my first ever foray into Ars Magica!

Right, extraordinary results table to hand, Antoine rolls experimentation for learning "Relay the Vision of the Magus" (Inventive Genius is enough to get him to the required level without rolling for LT). 1d10=4, no extraordinary results. Cool. I'll update planners and my Grimoire.

[Pralix]

I couldn't find the haggling rules on the wiki

[Ovarwa]

@Marko Markoko

Pralicians are descendants of the lineage of Pralix. She was Tytalus' apprentice, and the one who formed House Ex-Miscellanea. So they are the only Latin/classical magi of a house of hedgies.

And you missed my point! It wasn't a challenge. I said it was refreshing for a female character to be played by an actual female. I am weary of crossgendered characters. There is no challenge.
But play whatever your heart truly desires. The troupe will advise you as to what we find acceptable and what we feel may be too munchkin.

I should also mention that Ken K (Ovara) has recovered his typing powers. He is one of the first original players of this saga, but he has never actually made a character. He has always just played NPC's. He was the original voice of the firedrake trio. Not sure what he wants to do, if anything. But old players are always welcome back. I will warn everyone he is a flagrant munchkin and admits it, so NPC characters may be what he feels more comfortable playing.

lol What is this 'admit' of which you speak? That sounds so... timid.

[Marko_Markoko]

He not only admits it, he proudly proclaims it!
haggling is something best suited for in game, so i never developed that part. there is an old version somewhere here that i struck out. i thought i deleated any reference to it.

[Pralix]

I

@Marko Markoko

haggling is something best suited for in game, so i never developed that part. there is an old version somewhere here that i struck out. i thought i deleated any reference to it.

I found it in the wiki: economy section.

Something else just hit me. I'm tempted to invent an animal necromancer. All I wanted is find a spell to create a horse for the Pralician, but this seems promising and original - I doubt that there are many other roadkill magae out there.
Would "dead animals" be a minor or a major focus?

[Marko_Markoko]

My guess would be minor

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Pralix

Something else just hit me. I'm tempted to invent an animal necromancer. All I wanted is find a spell to create a horse for the Pralician, but this seems promising and original - I doubt that there are many other roadkill magae out there.

So, basically, you want to invent the thestral.

[Marko_Markoko]

Is the thing based in mythology or did JK invent it?
You are so Harry Potter and I am Doctor Strange

[Peregrine_Bjornaer]

@Marko Markoko

Is the thing based in mythology or did JK invent it?

As near as I can tell, she invented it.

@Marko Markoko

You are so Harry Potter and I am Doctor Strange

Which makes our friendship all the more magical.

[Marko_Markoko]

@Peregrine_Bjornaer

@Marko Markoko

Is the thing based in mythology or did JK invent it?

As near as I can tell, she invented it.

@Marko Markoko

You are so Harry Potter and I am Doctor Strange

Which makes our friendship all the more magical.

Other influential (non Ars) wizards in my life include Elric, Doctor Fate, and Mister Lizard.

[The_Fixer]

@Asilano

But I can't see why you're basing the Target levels for "enhancing my existing mundane senses" off the levels given for "magical senses received through my existing ones". That is, the core book gives no additional levels for seeing (mundanely) at a distance over hearing (mundanely) at a distance; both are InIm affecting one sense. It distinguishes between "seeing" the presence of Vis and "hearing" the presence of Vis - see, for instance, Prying Eye (see at a distance, one sense, base 1) versus Discern Own Illusions (acquire the information "I made that illusion" via your sight; base 1, +4 Sight).

In the "Eidetic memory" case, what are you envisaging R and T being? Personal, Individual would be nice ("it affects me", rather than Foo, Sight "it affects what I can see")...

Ok, long time, I'm a little lost, so my post may be off. I hope I understand you right and that I am clear.

As I see it, if you're affecting one of your senses, you must target that sense. So, you could:

• Grant yourself a new sense (Sight of the Active Magics)
• Increase the range of a sense (Eyes of the Eagle)
• See though a given material (Clear Sight of the Naïad)
  Note that only the first exemple give you a magical sense. The others keep your sight as it is, they just better it in another way. Likewise, whereas sensory impressions usually fade, this spell allow to keep them fresh.

The alternative, as I see it, is targeting something in order to record everything from this.
Like: Remind your Loved One
Base 1, +1 Eye, +3 moon, +1 Ind= lvl 10
This allows you to record all your sensory impressions from a given person, keeping them perfectly fresh in your mind so long as the spell endures. Some magi use this to keep fresh sensory impressions of their loved ones while traveling, whereas Quaesitores use that to record interogations. They won't have any special record of anything outside the spell's target, of course.

Does this help?

@fightmaster

Don't non-standard R/D/T require a minor breakthrough before they can be used? I realize breakthroughs can be passed around the Order in tractatus, but that's still the kind of thing that would require troupe (or at least SG) permission. I'm not sure how flexible folks are willing to be with characters finding a tractatus on just the kind of breakthrough we're looking for.

Yes and no. This is a gray area. As I understand it:
Spontaneous Magic must use standard ranges, or ranges for whom you've got a virtue.
BUT hermetic spells can be invented with non-standard ones, which are usually 1 magnitude higher than the closest standard range.

How does this mingle with virtues and breakthrough? My take is that you can work to integrate a non-standard r/d/t, making it a part of hermetic magic. This eliminates the +1 penalty, and gives you the appropriate minor virtue.
For exemple, imagine that the Eye range wasn't integrated. One could use it as a special range akin to Touch +1, until someone got fed up with it and integrated it through research.

Where this meshes badly is when some R/D/T are described as being impossible to use without a special virtue.
A quick search of the forum gave this good resume of things, as well as the page reference

Does this need a breakthrough?

And HoH: True Lineages suggests that new Ranges and Durations are good candidates for Minor Breakthroughs. HoH:TL suggest making new Ranges and Durations standard to hermetic magic. Which is different from the rule about Non-Standard parameters on pg 114. While this is technically true, what does it mean making a Range "standard" to hermetic magic if a hermetic magus can use it anyway without any need of a breakthrough? Similarly, what is the value of any Virtue that gives you access to n…

@Pralix

1x improved characteristics (I hate people getting good characteristics by setting strength to -3 without a good reason)

I love you.
Ardath (Str 0), Wirth (Str 0), Isen (Str 0), Arachné (Str -2).
The only reason why Arachné has -2 is that she's old and not someone I picture as strong at all, even when younger. More the swift, lean type whith stingy strikes.

I still remember one guy arguing that no, his combat magus with Int +3, Per +3, Qik +3, Sta +2, Com +1, Pre -2, Str -3, Dex -3, didn't take dump stats

@Pralix

Would "dead animals" be a minor or a major focus?

Hum... Necromancy is a Major. This is smaller for necromantic purposes, wider otherwise.
Mammals is a Major, and would allow you to do this, but only to mammals. OTOH, you can do it to any animal, yet can't affect live ones.
It applies to every technique, but for a subset of the form.

I'd say rename it "Animal Necromancy" and it'll be perfectly fine. This makes it a subset of necromancy, just like you want, but doesn't let you use your focus to, say, tranform a dead cat into a dragon or create a pile of corpses.

[Pralix]

First draft. I haven't written a good background story yet, because I'm very aware that this may still change.
I plan to give her 2 cycles, one revolving around her binding her magical animal companion as a familiar, and one about her fight for a change of scrying laws. At the end of cycle 2, she wins hermetic prestige over some legal battle but is banned from Normandy and returns home to Iberia-->Andorra.
I doubt, she'll ever be a very good mage (although I plan to invest some xp in mastery abilities to improve her PeVi spells), but she'll try to get 5 in all arts so she can train an apprentice soon. She'll be a good lawyer and excellent at comprehend magic.

Ide, filia Pralicis, at Gauntlet
Characteristics: Int +3, Per +5, Pre +0, Com +0, Str -1, Sta +1, Dex -1, Qik -1
Size: 0
Age: 22(22)
Warping Score: -
Virtues and Flaws: The Gift; Hermetic Maga; Comprehend Magic (HoH:S, 128), Gentle Gift; Great Perception (2x), Improved Characteristics, Inspirational, Minor Magical Focus (exotic magic, HoH:S, 126), Piercing Gaze, Puissant Comprehend Magic, Self-Confident; Unnatural Magic (HoH:MC, 87), Driven (Major: Become a Quaesitor and legalize comprehend magic), Weak Magic Resistance (against spellcasters not analyzed using Comprehend Magic, see HoH:S 126)*; ability block (martial), magical animal Companion (Korax, a Raven of Virtue), overconfident (minor), unimaginative Learner
Personality Traits: Amiable +1, Persistent +3, Overconfident +2
Reputations: none
Combat: -
Soak: +1 (+4 with Doublet of Imp. Silk)
Fatigue Levels: Ok, 0, -1, -3, -5, unconscious
Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), incapacitated (16-20), dead (21+)
Abilities: see below
Arts: Mu 5 15
Pe 5 15
Re 8 36
Co 8 36
Im 6 21
An 1 1
Me 1 1
Arts: 125

Spells:
Doublet of Impenetrable Silk MuAn15
I’m singing in the Rain ReAq5 (protects against rain, Base: 1, R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind, +1 unnatural)
Call to Slumber ReMe10
Prenatural Growth and Shrinking MuCo15
The Flying Witch ReCo25 (Base 15, R: P, D: Sun, T: Ind)
Cozy CrIg5 (keeps you warm, Base 2; R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind)
Veil of Invisibility PeIm20
Demon’s Eternal Oblivion PeVi5 (Base 3, R: Voice, D: mom., T: Ind)
Sap the Griffin’s Strength PeVi5 (same Magic Realm)
Irony PeVi5 (same fairies)
Break the Shield PeVi10 (HP 85)

Development:
Elionor Sala was born as the natural daughter Matieu Grony, the son of a Barcelona Patrician and Anna, a maid in the house of Matieu’s father. Although Elinor was never officially recognized, mother and daughter were allowed to stay with the Patrician household and she got even to spent time with her father.
Early Childhood:
Occitan (Catalan, Merchants) 5
Area Lore Catalonia (Barcelona) 2
Athletics (running) 1
Awareness (search) 2
Charm (wit) 1
Folk Ken (observing personality traits) 1
Guile (disguise) 1
Stealth (inside a building) 1
Swim (sea) 1

Childhood (2 years: 40xp)
Elionor managed to charm Matieu into taking her along on some of his business trips through Catalonia, and she learned even more by just observing how business was done at the house.
Animal Handling (Horses) 1
Etiquette (Patrician) 1
Intrigue (understanding power constellations) 2
Leadership (children) 1
Riding (long distance) 1
Survival (cooking) 1

Apprenticeship (240xp – 125xp arts = 115xp):
In Normandy
Latin (Hermetic) 4
Magic Theory (Vim) 3
Artes Liberales (rhetorics) 1
Parma Magica (Mentem) 1
Comprehend Magic 1+2
Concentration (spells) 1
Penetration (Vim) 1
Order of Hermes Lore (history) 1
Profession: Scribe (hermetic texts) 1
Code of Hermes (scrying) 1
Equipment: Wizardly robes (improved with Doublet of Impenetrable Silk)
Voting Sigil: A perfect clear crystal lens
Spell Sigil: clarity (she’s an HDTV wizard!)

[Marko_Markoko]

At a glance, I am loving it
In cannon, Andorra is part of Provencal. In this saga, it is part of neither Provencal or Iberia, but has connections to both. Culturally, we are more oriented towards Iberia and have very close ties with Barcelona covenant (including a direct portal to the city).
This is an interesting character and I look forward to seeing her in action

[Prince_of_Boredom]

Just one thing to point out...Solomon is a Quaesitor and has proven for the most part to be quite conservative (with the one exception of the whole dragon magus thing ) and will likely not be supportive of Ide's driving goal. I'm fine with character conflict, just wanted to make sure you were aware of the current makeup of the covenant.

[Pralix]

Just one thing to point out...Solomon is a Quaesitor and has proven for the most part to be quite conservative (with the one exception of the whole dragon magus thing ) and will likely not be supportive of Ide's driving goal. I'm fine with character conflict, just wanted to make sure you were aware of the current makeup of the covenant.

Ah, the resident quaesitor. The one she has to flatter to get ahead. Or to convince so he can do the legal talk

Seriously:
If you think her goala are too quaesitorial (or if she's too brainy for Andorra), then I can tweak her to become a more classical Pralician: "We come in peace. Sign here to join the Federation."
Driven is easily replaced by Ambitious or Optimist ("No, I don't think he's a diabolist, just because he's sacrificing children"), or Waster of Vis (she seems to have trouble with vis anyway), and piercing gaze by venus blessing (hawk eye to moon eye).

or

to make her a hoplite, I could kick out inspirational, piercing gaze and the Gentle Gift and give her Flawless magic, Puissant parma (specialty: sharing parma) and an affinity with vim, plus some more aggessive personality flaws.