Table Talk - Development

I know that physics say that you can boil a warrior like an egg using heat. In fact as mentioned above I would make your heat spells bypass armour completely (except the ray-like thingy).

The point I was trying to make is that fire is supposed to be the prime damage dealer of the system. At least how I see it. It is a metagame decision, not one necessarily supported by hard rules for physics. Fire has an extra +5 damage over any other form of damage even if I would argue that being charred is not necessarily more damaging that having a spike driven through your eye, for example (and the spike would be lower level than a POF, BTW).

This is why I made the comment. Fire-based POFs are a classic of magician stories. If fire is "just another form of doing exactly the same as 100 other combos" it loses part of its panache. I think it should be kept as the first way of doing direct damage (damage soakable by armor BTW) in the Ars Magica universe. Otherwise there is not much reason why Creo Animal or the crystal dart doing -5 damage over a POF for the same level of spell, really. From a modern physics point of view they would not be different enough to guarantee that difference in favor of fire IMO.

Hope that explains better my POV :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Xavi

BTW: I am slowly printing the characters and reading them. So far Marie and Fall's characters.

Falls' character is extremely cool at first glance. I have to fiully read the backstory yet to comment properly, but I have always liked alternatives for combat magicians and he is quite a character. Congrats. :slight_smile: It seems that house Flambeau might not be that underrepresented in the end! :slight_smile:

Now, Marie (JanMichelle's character) is just amazing. Does beat my level of imagination. The best character I have read about in years IMO. Just sounds... right and cool. I loved the lab thingy. Having to negotiate with your alchemical brass material (or whatever lab equipment looks like) made me laugh a lot and it gives the lab a level of personality difficult to find in a lot of specialized lab descriptions.

Thanks xavi, I do feel flattered. :blush:

Comments for Inigo/Xalbador
This is a great character ! :smiley:

Dabbling in the Legion of Mithras is okay, so long as you sever ties with them before joining the Knights of Seneca. Vanacastium filius Julius, one of the ancient elders of the Knights of Seneca, openly insulted the Legion of Mithras and accused them of purposefully twisting history to make themselves important. According to Vanacastium, Flambeau was a Mercurian magus, and his mentor Delendar was a Visgoth, and Laberius was a mere Hedge Wizard. The Senecans do not uphold this view, but they refuse to apologize. This was around 80 years ago or so I think. No one has heard from old Vanacastium in nearly fifty years.

However, this doesn’t mean much. All kinds of Flambeau magi, and a few non-Flambeau, have been members of this Societas. They have had Mithraic members, though you would be the only one as of now. So I don’t mind you manipulating the Legion this way at all. Perhaps your parens engineered things for you this way. Yes, yes indeed. Yes. I have a plot and scheme. And you know what it is. You read that thing really well. I know what you are up to. I am not a bean counter, so I throw you to the troupe to be judged. But otherwise you are approved to go up on the big board.

The Major Focus in Heat, I say keep it. A Major Focus in Fire would allow you to create, destroy, change and ward and understand Fire, but not Cold. The Heat focus helps you create Hot and Cold based attacks, protect against the same, and has all kinds of lateral applications that go way beyond simple attack/damage mechanics. Yes, you are gimped a little bit on the damage compared to just creating fire, but the Focus in Heat (call it Temperature, just so you are covered on all bases) allows you to have a higher level/penetration spell in two different modes of attack using the same Art. You have the fire focus, you meet the guy with the Immunity to fire, you are outta luck. Your focus, you can hit him one way or the other. And what about strategic spells? Make the weather really cold where your enemy is while you wait mere miles away in sunny warmth.

Have other people been using the Correspondence rules from Covenants in advancing their characters? Under the old ones in 4th, Viola, with her poor Communication, had no reason to use the rules, but I don't see why she couldn't use the ArM5 ones--unless her Incomprehsibility would have the XP's for her correspondent. Would that be the case? (Arguably yes, the way the rule is written, but if so, it makes the Flaw much nastier, since no one will want to correspond with her, meaning she loses 4 XP's a year.)

Scott

I have never used correspondence, and I don't think anyone else has, so I don't think you are loosing out on much.

I don't think I've ever used correspondence for any Ars character I've played. Incomprehensible would, however, definitely preclude any meaningful dialogue on any magical topic, I'm afraid.

So can we say we're just not going to use it in this saga? I like the fact that it encourages you to write to other magi, but it does unbalance advancement just a smidgeon.

Scott

Incomprehensible isn't a total bar to communication, no--it just halves XP's if someone is learning from you.

Scott

Does it???
And well, if it does, I see no reason for pure heat not to. In some ways, you've got a better deal, as metal armor is more conductive to heat.

And there's a reason: Style!!!
I considered doing an Ice Mage for novus mane, not because of any mechanical reason, but because I found it cool 8)
And then, there's stealth, too. IMO, you could also easily justify a "fatigue-damaging" spell similar to the cold ones. Make them sweat! :wink:
And don't forget the combos! Heat/Cold, make things all bristle and all^^

Out from fire, there are a lot of combat maguses out there. And they all do lower damage than the fireball-tossing flambeau. With your focus, you'd do as much damage as a magus with a focus in acid, and, IMHO, have slightly more options.
In essence, though, the main thing is that I agree with xavi about fire being THE damage-dealer there.

As per me, hermetic theurgy is totally non-viable, so I've dropped it, while keeping the concept. I'll have hermetic spirit control spell, Bind Magical Creatures, and, if I can (level 40!!! T-T) an hermetic summoning spell.
Had to redo the magus from scratch. Changed him post-gauntlet a little, too.

Well, we can correpond without using the mechanics for it :wink:

Fixer,

Good so far. He still doesn't feel very Verditius-y, but I can see you are going for something unique. I was thinking maybe you could craft some weapons and armour for a few of us? :smiley:

Thanks everyone for your great comments. :smiley:

I’m feeling the arguments about fire damage, especially now that I’ve had some time to think about it. Renaming the focus as Temperature much better describes what I’m going for and the new direction I’ll be taking it. I shall press on.

I’ll probably be revising to focus my spells on environment modification - creating weather phenomena with a temperature element, comfort spells, heating or melting armor, cooking/burning food, melting solid things so they’re molten and Aiming them so they fall on enemies, damaging the body through extreme temperature with fever or frostbite, and the like - rather than direct damage. This forces more creative use of the focus, which is more fun anyway.

This seems like the most sensible approach.

This is an unsual idea, and so I wanted to run it by everyone first. I can't believe how much work I put into this...

(I accidentally deleted several paragraphs in the middle of typing this. Arrrgggh.)

Viola’s Lab

When Florenzo invited Viola to join the covenant at Andorra, she found the library impressive, but what really attracted her was a remarkable discovery she made on the covenant grounds.

Many years ago, the secluded lab of an elderly and Twilight-addled magus [Mark, maybe you could suggest a name and date?] disappeared into a regio, leaving a swath of bare ground nearly eight paces across in the middle of a single-story building. The magus in question mentioned the event to a couple of his closest sodales and a handful of covenantfolk, but, while the newly empty space was clearly visible from the castle’s wall and towers, the development had little real impact, since the magus continued to use the lab normally, and the area it had once occupied could be entered only through the magus’s living quarters. As time wore on, though, observers looking down could see that plants had taken root in the vacant square, which came to be dominated by a young black pine growing in its center.

When the magus passed into Final Twilight a couple of decades later, the covenfolk opened the door from his quarters to the “courtyard” and found a tiny bit of woodland, complete with ground foliage and even a few animals. The other magi were able to enter the regio easily enough—to do so required an individual using Second Sight or Piercing the Faerie Veil to place a foot in a specific position while crossing the threshold—but none of the magi at the time had Second Sight, no one wanted to have to cast a spell each day just to enter his own laboratory, and labs were not in short enough supply to make it worthwhile to enchant of an item to do the trick. Thus, the magi scavenged the specialized equipment and ingredients they could make use of, and then abandoned the lab. The covenfolk converted the remaining rooms of the late magus’s suite into storage space (the regio and the magus himself were sufficiently creepy that no one wanted to live there), and even the courtyard remained largely neglected, since by that time it was so overgrown that converting it into a garden or some other productive use would have required a great deal of mundane work, and the magi were reluctant to tamper with the area’s magical nature by casting spells to transform it; it became a secluded refuge for solitary poets and sulking children. The lab was not exactly forgotten—the black pine continued to grow, and soon towered over the structures in the interior of the castle, a visible reminder that prompted every child born in the covenant to ask her parents for the story of its origins (and if the tree gets much larger, its roots are going to become a problem for the surrounding rooms). However, no one had reason to visit the laboratory, apart from the occasional exploring apprentice, and later magi seldom considered the possibility of making use of it; the few who did found the lab’s interior a little too strange for their tastes.

When Viola visited the covenant in the early winter of 1220, at Florenzo’s invitation, she became extremely curious about the large pine in the middle of a building, especially after looking down on the interior of the courtyard from a nearby tower. She asked to see the courtyard, and when the door was opened to her, she immediately spotted the entrance to the regio (Faerie aura 6). Stepping inside, she found a well-equipped and fully functional lab…more or less. A stem from an ivy plant growing from the base of the pine had found its way into the regio through a broken floorboard (which makes the lab Deformed)—this is actually a second entrance to the regio, though any human would be hard-pressed to make use of it. The ivy had thrived in the confines of the lab, which, despite its skylight and unnaturally bright interior lighting (Magical Lighting as Excessive Lighting; unless commanded otherwise, the lighting only functions during daylight hours), was still shady compare with an outdoor area lit by direct sunlight. The plant sent its shoots throughout the room, covering the walls and virtually every other vertical and horizontal surface (Infested). Four stems wound around square pillars supporting the roof at the corners of a skylight. The original occupant had enchanted the skylight to exclude rain, wind, and other foul weather, while admitting sunshine and (except during the colder months) fresh air. Strangely, though the room now formed a regio, light continued to pour in, and the atmosphere was much fresher than might be expected of a long-neglected laboratory. It was here that Viola made her most interesting discovery.

Stacking a chair on top of two tables, Viola climbed through the skylight, and discovered a second, higher level of the regio (Faerie aura 7). The upper level must have developed later, after the passing of the magus into Final Twilight, because it went unmentioned in the covenant’s lore, though it seems hard to believe that it hadn’t been found by an adventurous apprentice or two. Rather than mimicking the lab on the level below, the upper level represented an idealized version of the overgrown courtyard at the mundane level (further evidence that it must have formed after the lower regio level): a wall of ivy, climbing heavenwards beyond sight, enclosed a circular space eight paces across, with the familiar black pine (or rather, its idealized counterpart) at its center. The four stems of the courtyard ivy joined to wind around the tree, appearing from nowhere 10 feet up the trunk (the height of the lab’s ceiling), and growing both up and down from that point, and Viola found herself clutching the tree there. Gripping the ivy for support, she descended into a tiny world inhabited by fae versions of the plants and animals living in the mundane courtyard.

Despite the high ivy walls, the regio is lit during daylight hours by sunlight from directly above. It experiences the same weather as the world outside, with the exception of strong winds, though the area does see the occasional circular breeze. The most important inhabitants are the pine and the ivy, both of which are awakened. A few of the plants can move around freely, though neither they nor the animals visit the lower level of the regio very often—for the most part, the vine has this room to itself. Fortunately, ivy tolerates pruning quite well, both physically, and, in this case, emotionally, meaning that the floor and work surfaces can be cleared relatively easily (or the ivy will simply move itself out of the way). At present, the upper level has not been incorporated into the lab, and so the Regio Virtue modifies only the Warping of the lab, and not its Size. The first season of Refinement will change this, though the new space will remain Empty until Viola is able to spend two seasons adding the Natural Environment Virtue; the extension of the lab will also add the Inhabitants Flaw, and, provided the inhabitants cooperate, the Faerie Ingredients Virtue. I don’t think the addition of the upper level will add the Exposed Flaw, since half the lab will not be exposed at all—and Exposed isn’t necessarily required for a lab that includes a Natural Environment; however, I’d like to hear opinions on this. The future will probably see Viola’s training the flora and fauna to act as a Horde, and adding Pot Plants to the lower level, to provide a little horticultural variety.

For purposes of lab work, I’ll consider the aura for the lab as a whole to be 6 (the aura of the lower level). An individual spending half her working time in each level of the regio could work in the lab the entire year with no Warping, assuming she sleeps outside it (this would amount to spending time in each level “very frequently”). In those seasons when Viola works in the lab, she is assisted in the lab by a Servant, a sharp girl (Int +2) named Anais, who was born in the covenant.

Lab Stats:

Size: 0 (0)
Refinement: 0
Base Safety: 0
General Quality: +1
Upkeep: 0
Safety: +4
Warping: +1
Health: +1
Aesthetics: +1
Specializations: +1 Items, +1 Vis Extraction, +1 Mu, +1 He, +2 Im, +1 Me

Free Virtues: Superior Construction (+1 Safety, +1 Aesthetics), Servant (+1 Safety, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Me), Superior Equipment (+1 General Quality, +1 Safety, +1 Vis Extraction), Superior Tools (+1 Safety, +1 Items), Magical Heating (as Superior Heating; +1 Health, +1 Aesthetics, +1 Ig), Magical Lighting (as Excessive Lighting; +2 Im), Regio (+1 Warping)
Minor Virtues: Familiar (+3 Safety)
Free Flaws: Deformed (-1 Safety, -1 Aesthetics, +1 Mu), Infested (-1 Safety, -1 Aesthetics, +1 He)

I have not heard a lot on my magus, is Decimus ok? Should I change something?

/Max

When I started reading about Viola's Lab, it wasn't long before I got to the bit where you first mentioned the regio and I was at once suspicious, because I think regios have the potential to let your inner munchkin run free.
But reading on, I found your background story has a feel that fits (considering all that fairy stuff Viola is involved with). I find it a bit unlikely that an abandoned lab has superior equipment and tools - I suggest you ordered those as you arrived and they will be finished after our first adventure (thanks to the competent craftsmen at Andorra). No number changing involved for you.

The results are not overpowered, in my opinion, even taking in the high aura (which is quite a labwork benefit), mostly because Viola certainly isn't, and her most important lab helper (Grill the Butterfly, or whatever the creatures name was) can't get shot easily in battle.

I am a bit confused about the second regio level (does it add another level of warping?): I think you could run the upper regio level as a second seperate lab (solves the aura problems). I don't think it is a major point anyway - Mark won't let Viola sit around much in her lab anyway, so the lab's potential plays a minor role in an action-loaded campaign, I guess.

What's the reputation your lab has, by the way?

To sum it up, the lab has got a storyish feel, which I really like.

I like it so far :smiley:

Will read closer later. Gotta work now!

It looks alright to me, but I am poor judge since I have no idea what these astrological tonics thingies are about (must be in a book I don't have yet).

He can't cast spontaneous spells? Sounds like a MAJOR flaw to me (even if you can do ceremonial magic)

Important:
Well, get him out of his wizardly robes and into your toga, so he can cast spells at all!

BTW, a toga is a 6 ft wool blanket (at least, other sources say adult size was 2,5 m by 4 m) wrapped around your magus. It's just the right kind of garment for a Spanish summer. :open_mouth:

I figured it would have the same sort of equipment as the rest of the covenant, but yes, it doesn't matter, since she'll spend some time refitting it before doing any lab work.

The aura only amounts to a +1 bonus (no more significant than Highly Organized, for example), since the covenant's overall aura is 5--I made the increase as small as I could while still allowing a regio to exist there.

Constantine, the familiar, isn't much of a factor in the lab, other than the Safety added by the Golden Cord: he has an Int -3 (standard for a familiar that starts as a non-intelligent animal), and therefore he'll need a Magic Theory of 3, with a specialization in Lab Assistant, just to give a +1 bonus to Quality.

I'm not sure why it's written the way it is, but the way the Regio Virtue is written, the +3 Size comes from having two different regio levels, with the half the laboratory in each level. I suppose you could have half the laboratory at a mundane level and half in a regio (indeed, this seemingly makes a lot more sense, to me, anyway), but that's not the way the Virtue is written, and I was following the way it was written. I wonder though if a Regio lab should have the Awkward Shape Flaw almost automatically, since it is in essence partitioned. At least, perhaps Viola's lab should have this Flaw until she can enchant a device to make it easy to move between levels (a little wooden platform enchanted with a ReHe effect to serve as an "elevator").

Nobody knows about it yet. :slight_smile:

Thanks. :slight_smile: I was inspired by your elaborate lab description, but I have have gone overboard with my own. I felt though that the the existence of the lab required some explanation.

Scott

Decimus is awesome! I was writing a special thing for him I have not finished. I will send you something.

Deadlines
I hate to be a Dk, but I am gonna start early with the characters that are ready to go. I will post Antonio on Monday, and we can have a little Prologue while we wait for everyone else to catch up. Xavi is the key, when his wounded and weary character makes it to the gate, it is full on go time.

And my request for a Lab Text List, just 150 easy levels for a wish list, I need that by Monday as well. These are not your spells. These are just 150 levels of spells that are already there for who knows how long? I suppose one or two can be special and new, but they still have to be kind of generic, not custom tailored to your character. And you can go a little higher if you want. Not all requests will be granted either, I just want a whole lot of input. I don’t want to make a big list of spells I think are the obvious best choices and say “here, I know what’s best for you”. Don’t include your own spells, I have already picked over all of those, and I have certain basics covered such as the Aegis and a regiment of healing spells.