Table Talk (OOC)

One aspect we haven't done much with (or found out a great deal about) is the local Fae in the area of the Covenant. Making initial contact with them might be beneficial. Durenmar aggressively gathering vis has soured the relationship of Magi with the Fae in the Rhine to a certain extent, though Dankmar seems to have a positive relationship there. Perhaps our two Merinita could combine their efforts and attempt to, between them, make contact with the local Fae and Dankmar both?

Clusius: Negotiate the deal with Oculus?
Regulus: Research & Contact w/ Senior G/Q at Durenmar
Wolfgang: ?
Alba: Envoy to Dankmar/Faerie
Celeste: Envoy to Dankmar/Faerie
Belisarius: Envoy to Waddenzee
Vorsutus: Envoy to Crintera

The closest Fae are the ones at the south of the Black Forest?

I expect the closest strong ones to be the ones from the Neuchatel lake, followed (maybe) by faeries from the mountains. That is, if we do have any strong faeries in said places at all.

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The cost would certainly depends on the kind of ship, its size, and how many magical features we want it to have. Certainly, a flying ship would be much more useful than a conventional one, if more costly.

Clusius isn't a great bargainer (but then none of the magi are), but in a pinch he might still go. Provided the covenant can agree on the features it would like for such a ship, and wants to devote the resources to buy one (as opposed to say, improving the library).

Note that the point of these is to give story opportunities for each player. So priority should be given to players others than me. We can decide to settle some of these through non-story narrative (or an exchange of letters), concentrating on the ones that we fell make for more interesting stories (and for which we have someone willing to run the story).


My only point re: the ship is that if we are handing over such a sizable amount of vis, we should buy something from them (whether a ship or books either one) and make sponsorship an "add-on" requirement, rather than simply make a bribe of such a large size and get only sponsorship. It would be a better negotiating tactic in my personal opinion.

I would be open to any suitably large purchase or set of purchases that would fulfill the needs of this purpose.

While I may personally be interested in a ship, it isn't the only option and may not be the most immediately beneficial option either.

If we instead committed to a steady flow of purchases of books from them over time that would be a very viable alternative selection that could help us all more immediately as we settle in at Tugurium. And perhaps be an option more members would be interested in funding?

Also, if preferred I could have Vorsutus go and do the negotiating (for screen time as it were), and wouldn't mind that at all. But I think Oculus would prefer not to be visited by the Blatant Gifted curse-meister who hates mundanes. :wink:

That is certainly true! But remember that Clusius, while a Jerbiton, is not Gentle-Gifted.

Well we will soon have two Gentle Gifted types arriving as well.

So perhaps Celeste or Belisarius would make better choices for going to Oculus.

Judging by social stats/abilities ... perhaps Celeste is the most suitable choice.

The question to know if buying the ship is worth it or not, is knowing what enchantments would we want to have on it, and the ship size :stuck_out_tongue:

She also have previous experience there.

As Arthur said, many of these can be solved by letters. A couple can also be negotiated in the days before/during Tribunal (the deal with Oculus and supporting Tersch/Wadd, for example).

Also, we don’t need all of them. It’s frowned upon to be the only covenant to deny support, so as long as we get 8 (or, worst case scenario, 7) from the list, we are ok.

Re: Tersch/Wadd I think it’s an issue already solved (we vote for them, they vote for us). Unless someone wants to make it bigger?

Do we have anyone interested in running a story for us to gain the support of Dankmar?

Are we going to run a story for the Tribunal itself?

Regulus will write back during summer about what he finds on his research, with letters arriving in autumn or winter… leaving us not much time to act upon the info.

These letters should include a list of all the topics to be discussed and cases to be heard on the Tribunal (this is defined at least 3 months prior to the Tribunal, so Regulus should be fairly aware of everything, unless we have a last minute addition).

I would rather not. A few scenes perhaps. But there might also be small sub-stories that happen during the Tribunal.

Will all of the magi go to the Tribunal meeting?

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Re: Tribunal

I think Vorsutus would go, though pending any information we get about potential conflicts/issues I'm not sure yet what he would be trying to do.

Re: Stories vs Correspondence

I would agree that in general the negotiation for a purchase + sponsorship with Oculus could be done "off screen" as it were... if we say bribe a Redcap to give us fast turn around with a series of exchanges with them. Otherwise we won't have time to really trade many letters unless I'm wrong?

I am not sure re: Waddenzee, but if an exchange of votes/support seems reasonable to work out via similar means there then we can consider that one largely resolved via letter exchange and Redcap bribes.

That really leaves Dankmar and Crintera? And the Fae, potentially?

Exactly the same for Alba.

Seems logic to me. Those that are nearly assured could be done "off screen".

If im not wrong, yeah

Clusius: somethingsomething Art! something... (I'm sure there is something.)
Regulus: Research & Contact w/ Senior G/Qs at Durenmar
Wolfgang: ?
Alba: Envoy to Dankmar & Faerie
Celeste: Envoy to Dankmar & Faerie
Belisarius: Envoy to Crintera & Ash Guild Errand Boy
Vorsutus: Envoy to Crintera & Ash Guild Errand Boy

So I think this leaves our significant pending stories as ...

Regulus is off to Durenmar to do lots of reading. And likely more, I'm sure. And it is very interesting reading, of course. (I do like to read. I swear.) Possibly some legal entanglements since the Tribunal is just around the corner?

Alba & Celeste are off to visit the not-nice-ladies and Dankmar and to make friends with the local Fae?
(Perhaps also some grogs? A companion?)

Belisarius & Vorsutus are off to ingratiate themselves with the Ash Guild & to make friends with the fuzzy-wuzzies at Crintera.
(Likely accompanied by Benetto, Halfdan, Thorsten, and Thorsten's mercenaries which have yet to be defined.)

Since we are addressing Faerie (and I think it should be addressed) it occurs to me...

Are there any magical creatures/communities known in the area sufficient we might want to take notice of and/or send an envoy to them?

As a matter of normal traffic, you can expect a redcap visit once or twice per season (more in the summer, fewer in winter). If you can get the redcap to wait a day or two while you prepare a reply (usually not a problem), you get one round of letters each season, and two in the summer.

So you may at least be able to arrange for the initial offer out to Oculus and have the basic agreement. Then you can finalize the deal with a quick visit (perhaps on the way to Crintera) or at Durenmar just before the start of Tribunal..


Or harvesting vis sources. There are always vis sources to harvest. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Edit: And there was that hunt with the Telsbergs...

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Regulus will attend (surprising no one, I think).

Clusius won't? I figured he would, being the princeps.

Oh, the hunt! I'll make a few suggestions in your character creation topic.

Btw, Ezechiel3571 told me about a magical ship that designed and commented at those forums.
Surely we can take some ideas from it :slight_smile:

Hermetic Projects suggests 18 pawns of vis to open a cog for enchantment (a Size +6 ship, manned by a crew of 12). Assuming we would want at least 120 levels of enchantments, that's another 12 pawns.

Standard price for verditius items is 3x the enchantment cost (we pay for the enchantment and twice as much for the work). That's 90 pawns. At least.

But, exact size of ship and enchantments of the ship will depend on what we want it to do... which I'm not very clear yet, to be honest. What is the idea?

My concern with buying a ship (or anything else) from Oculus is that, in the end, a sale is a sale, and nothing else. They don't need to sponsor us just because we are paying the regular price for a product. So, what exactly is the approach, if we go this way?

When I suggested 70 pawns of "tax" (bribe us such an ugly word... :stuck_out_tongue:) over 7 years I was just spitballing a value (10 pawns is how much vis per magus our sources generate (after paying the heirs), 7 years is one tribunal interval).

But to stand up to scrutiny the deal shouldn't be "we will pay X pawns for your votes", but something in the lines of "we would like to sponsor your activties of discovering if the Order of Odin exists, here is a small token of appreciation for your trouble".

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Bribing for votes/sponsorship is perfectly legal, hermetically speaking. Now I'm not sure if there is canon precedent for enforcement of such a contract/agreement ... but arguably an agreement to pay vis that isn't honored is deprivation of magical power. Since magical power is changing hands there is a case for hermetic crimes if such a deal isn't honored. But we don't need a pretext for bribing for votes as it were. There is no scrutiny on the fact that a deal was made and vis changed hands as a part of it. That isn't an unknown phenomenon even with a criminal case coming before Tribunal, for people to be engaging in political maneuvering and bribery for votes.

The point here to me is that we want to cut a good deal (for both of us) with them. The buying of something significant (ship or library additions or something) is just as valid an enticement for them, and gets us more in return is more my point.

We explicitly say, we are interested in making a large transaction with you, but we are perfectly capable of going somewhere else. We want a decent deal (but might be a little bit open to strong negotiation) but also explicitly sponsorship is part of the package. You don't sell 100+ pawn ships every day. There just aren't that many customers who can afford it, as well as want it. it is a not inconsiderable windfall for them. Plus the diplomatic prospect of being on good terms with a new Covenant in a highly political and intrigue filled Tribunal. It seems a reasonable approach/strategy with a good probability of success to me.

I'm not completely certain/settled. But we could perhaps open a thread to work on a design in more detail?

We have options and also ... should discuss different intended uses perhaps. What our goals are to be able to do with the ship.

At minimum if we invest in such a ship and it is a water traveling vessel I'd want it to be able to handle any/all problems involved with getting all the way up/down the Rhine/Birse to us. And up to Tugurium if we enhance the waterway enough. But that is only one potential design (a conventional water craft, augmented) ... we obviously could go an entirely different route.