Table Talk (OOC)

Yep, i will need to. T__T
But until then i will need to use the spell, i cannot let the tree die or something :frowning: (and that tree should be there before all the walls are placed, or we will need to open another can of worms there to make it fit inside xD

Not sure if here you are refering to know the situation before we take a decision to use magic to make my lab, or do you mean that maybe Celeste dont have a lab xD

About Francesca, she might make comments that will modify the project and make it easier. And she will know how much manpower is available to do the project and what magics will help more and which ones will be useless.

As for the tree, you may have to transplant it when it is still small and let it grow, in which case it it does not matter if you wait until the lab is ready.

You know that i didnt though something so stupidly obvious? D: Like not using magic to make it grow, i mean xD I will make that for sure ^^!

It would be a CrHe30 to bring an acorn to maturity in 1 day. Cast it at sunup, and at sundown, you'll have a fully grown tree .(Base 15, +1 Touch, +2 Sun)

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And you have time to shop for a lab text, if you don't want to invent it from scratch.

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Omg, sorry Itzhak, my bad. The first time that you said to do something like that, i mixed the Base 15 spell and i though that the one that makes grow a plant also had a +3 size modifier to the plant like the Base 1 spell.... That would made the tree like x8 size.

But i was totally wrong and i dont have that issue. So i can use magic to make it grow :smiley:

Uhm... thats another possibility too, ty :smiley:

But thats for the future... first i want to know what Francesca has to tell us xD

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There is a spell like that in the Grimoire, so it's possible to secure a Lab Text for it. Of course, if your Lab Total is already higher, it might be better to invent it yourself. A Lab Text can take some seasons to get to you, so might be faster to invent it.

Your Lab Total right now seems to be 32, so maybe better to negotiate for a Lab Text, and work on improving your Creo and/or Magic Theory.

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Since the decision pertains more to the players than to the characters I'll bring this here.

For Regulus both Rhine and Normandy are fine. He is slightly inclined towards Normandy because he spent half of his apprenticeship there, but overall both present opportunities and challenges to his goals.

From a legal standpoint, Normandy should also be easier to join (because we already meet all of their requirements to establish a covenant), but we should expect more trouble to defend our vis sources in the long run.


Talking as Rafael: I like Normandy a bit more than Rhine, seeing it as a more dynamic Tribunal. I lean slightly towards Normandy just to spice things up, but my view is that in the long run we'd have more politics and a bit less vis if we go that way. Chosing Rhine we'd have less politics (but still some, because Gilds). Chosing the Alps, after establishing the covenant, we might get away with no politics.

Finally, canonically Regulus went to Confluensis to peruse the Tribunal records of Normandy. My reasoning for that at the time the decision was made:

He would be departing soon after the events in La Roche D'Or (or returning right before them, depending on when they occur). It would be an opportunity to get one of the magas traveling with him (I could run a short story if there's interest), or to find a French companion.

From a story perspective, all three Tribunals offer different challenges.

The Rhine is more traditional and better-known. Once you've established yourself, the politics are somewhat tame. It is fairly easy to build stories, with a lot of known material that can be used.

Normandy has a different dynamics, with more rivalry between the covenants, particularly with regard to vis sources. Tugurium is well outside the stomping ground of other covenants of Normandy, so it could easily stand aside from many of the usual interactions. On the other hand, building stories would be a bit harder because the material of Normandy is a bit less developped IMO.

Finally, the Greater Alps are a bit of a blank slate. We would have the most freedom to develop the tribunal and stories related to it, since the only material we have is a 4th edition sourcebook. We could ignore it if we want and develop our own version. Tugurium would easily meet the requirements of the Greater Alps. From a story-building aspect it is the most flexible, giving us the greatest freedom but more work. We could discover/invent it together.

So that's indeed a choice for the players. I don't mind one way or the other. I've used a bit of material from the Rhine and Normandy to develop the background of the saga, but the Alps present the greater challenge but also the greater opportunity, IMO.

I would also note that the theme for each of the Tribunals is slightly different. Normandy present an Order of Hermes imitating mundane society, Rhine is a bit more political, and the Greater Alps gives off a more fantastical vibe.

As my character: Alba doesn't have strong feeling to anything remotely political xD She just wants to be relatively in peace and close to her mother, and Tugurium ticks both boxes anyways.

As a player: I just read about the Rhine tribunal, since I though that was already decided. I would need to read more about others tribunals. So I can't really give you an informed opinion about them :open_mouth:
Learning about other tribunals wouldn't be a big deal either, so don't feel bad for it, I can adapt :slight_smile: But then I would need to read a little first before I'm ready to make some stories ^^!

Bringing this to our OOC discussion. Regulus is the master of hermetic legalese, I'm not. XD
And some of this relates more to how we (players) want the Order and Tribunals to function.


My understanding as a player: by not being part of a Tribunal we would lack the protection given to a covenant (because covenants are formaly defined within a Tribunal, with every Tribunal having it's own rules). We would be just a bunch of magi living together.
Thus, our charter would also not be valid, putting everyting formerly belonging to Leonardus under some risk (but not too high of a risk, because of a bunch of reasons).
Augustus Nero, mentor to Clusius and quesitor from Normandy will register our charter drectly within Magvillus, which should give us at least some legal recognition, but that can only take us so far.

If we do not join a Tribunal, any issues brought against us will be prosecuted at the accusers Tribunal (this is my reading of HoH:TL). Since we are bordering three Tribunals, we might see fire comming from every side, and no one will be on our side. Politically, it's a pretty unstable situation.

Otherwise, there should be no ramifications. Every magus needs to be member of a House, but there's no obligation to be member of a Tribunal AFAIK. No one is going to march us or something like that.


For the game, I believe this will change the kinds of stories we will be involved with. Postponing ur decision would make the first few years more focused on dealing with the crossfire between Tribunals and chosing a suitable place. If we decide now, we skip ahead to the stories leading to joining the chosen Tribunal (but would still experience some crossfire).

Augustus Nero's move grants us some degree of protection, so I think we could just stay silent for a while and pretend we don't exist. Maybe until the next Tribunal (1214)? This is a bit risky.

It might be easier to protect us if we manifest intent of joining a Tribunal (say, Rhine) in 1207, but only properly join a Tribunal (any Tribunal) in 1214. This is also risky. XD

That's the premisse of the saga, a covenant bordering 3 Tribunals, in an unstable situation. I don't think we can escape some risk. :sweat_smile:

I think @Arthur can complement on what direction he will drive us if we postpone the decision (or just fail to join any Tribunal at all).


Oh, there has been some talk in the past about joining the Lotharingean movement (support the recreation of the Lotharingean Tribunal, between Rhine and Normandy, in the next Grand Tribunal). I'm not personally found of the idea, but it's also a path we can take (albeit later, so we would still need to join a Tribunal now).

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A couple things wouldn't change. We are still on the border, still have relations with the Telsberg, still close enough to Dankmar for them to pose us a problem...

As Arthur mentioned it will really change the tone of the Tribunal itself, our hermetic relations and politics. But for our day-to-day activities, I don't think it makes much difference. For example, I reckon Celeste is going to equally seek the killer of her mother, regardless of our Tribunal of choice, and Alba will still inherit her mother's legacy, whatever it is.

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There is. Each magus must be a member of a House and of a Tribunal. Otherwise they can be accused of vagrancy. But there is a seven-year period that the magus has to join and meet the requirements of another Tribunal. See HoH:TL p.49 for more information about vagrancy and its penalties.

Note that the magi are still currently members of their home Tribunal. So Clusius, Celeste and Alba are probably still 'residents' of the Rhine, while I believe Regulus is still a 'resident' of Normandy. Residency in the Rhine is easy, since you can declare yourself a peregrinator and just wander about. Same in Normandy with the eremite status. The Greater Alps do not accept covenant-less magi, as they consider them a source of trouble.

What, and spoil the fun? :smiling_imp:

If you fail to make a choice for the next Tribunal meeting (1207), then the pressure will build. Your vis sources may be challenged, perhaps even raided. You may face threats and accusations of poaching. Each of the neighbouring Tribunals will consider you a destabilizing influence, instead of just those you didn't join. You will have very little political influence, and be vulnerable from all sides.

-- "You are to know pain, you are to know fear, and, at the appointed hour, you are to die." (Babylon 5 quote)

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Had completely forgot about that. Thought it applied only to Houses. See, that's why I don't answer that kind of thing in character. XD

Yes. His situation is probably the most precarious, because he didn't formaly join Thebes and he left Normandy in the Spring of 1201, so he needs to join a Tribunal by Spring of 1208.

Well, he might request to join Rhine as a peregrinator, so we should have no problem if we want (or need) to postpone our decision a bit.

I think for Celeste, she would welcome a more scholarly type of a Companion, or maybe one that has Music and Enchanting Music, or even Entrancement

Talking to @Gaxxian he wanted a more social companion, so I will start developing that.

Regarding Items ordered from a Verditius. I believe the cost is x3 the cost to enchant, right?
If so, i might have a n enchanted Item level 24 I might want to get for Celeste, even if it takes most of her Vis.

Within reason, yes.

Cloak of Fair Weather
ReAu24
This fine cloak is made from heavy wool colored white and light blue. When worn, it protects it's wearer from winds as strong as gale force.
(Base 5, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, Individual, 2/day, Environmental trigger)

Looks good. Would cost 9 pawns from a Verditius.