Table talk: OOC

Retired Play by Post Campaigns Ars Magica 5th Edition: Ad fons (at the spring)
861

I am still here. I was never sure how many players we actually had.

The concept of grogs that serve covenant of the order that think on their own they can imprison and shoot at a member of the order doesn't sit well with me. That these same grogs have no remorse and no intention of groveling and begging for their lives considering Katja would become one of their bosses and members of covenant, basically they serve her and live at her mercy, seems even sillier. I don't think Katja would stay without serious amend of some sort (right not corpse of the one that gave the orders on own initiative and flogging for others might be enough).

I mean these grogs were so afraid of the mage that they expecte their word of confinement to hold her and so without fear that they were careful and methodical in their actions against her. They were willing to start attacks to kill her rather than running, hiding or apologizing. That isn't fear, that is confidence that the person isn't going to try to hurt them.

So I might have to replace Katja and instead she becomes plot at next tribunal when she brings charges.

(btw this was winter adventure, when is aegis get cast? Beginning of winter or end)?

862

I dunno. I think it would be more interesting to continue with Katja, perhaps have her learn a lesson in humility.

863

At least I have a small group then. The aegis is cast at winter solstice. I will start my new thread at spring and if you wish Lady Pheonix then you could write up a new character and have it at the spring council meeting or keep Katja, that is up to you. I know it takes some time to come up with a character but a name would do, example Inga Ex (unintelligible mutterings). What I want is that everyone is at the council meeting for an interesting discussion.

Andrew did we have time to study during the winter?

864

I disagree strongly with you on this , but I am not going to argue about it at the moment.
Fundementally Grogs are not slaves they do not live or die at the whims of the magi if they do you get either a violent rebellion against the magi, mass desertion or ReMe spells.
If Katja demanded this IC Mariella would refuse , veto her membership in the covenant and seriosuly consider Wizards war to remove the crazy women from the order as she would consider such an action dishonorable .

By the way I do agree that Mariella's behaviour was insane and unnaceptable however she was actually possessed by a spirit which influenced her mood most of the time , and during the time she was trying to kill Katja was actually controlling her. Once she has it clear what has happened she would be deeply ashamed of the events and consider that she was dishonoured by her actions and needed to make amends to those effected (covenfolk and Katja)

As for the season I think the magi of the covenant lost about 7 days to the adventure those travelling lost 23 days and so have a penalty on any study.

Alternatively the XP award for those taking part in the adventure is 8Xp

865

Katja can and would demand the head of the grog that did this. Armed retainers in service to members of the order should not imprison a member of the order unless explicity ordered to. They should never attack a mage unless it is provable defense for themselves or a mage in their charge (mage is attacking them), they are again explicitly ordered to, or person is accessing somewhere in the covenant they have been told is offlimit to strangers. (strange mage trying to enter the library could be a justifiable attack. Guarding, accompanying to watch and such is one thing: Imprisoning and shooting to kill is something totally different.

Killing or injuring a mage outside of wizard war is against the code. You don't need to know anything other than the oath you swore to know that. Your servants (grogs, apprentices, etc) are considered your hands and their acts reflect on you. This goes to tribunal, most mages would agree with the issue (and it is popularity contest and 'how would I feel if it happened to me' as much as code that will rule.).

You give armed weapon to someone around mages, you expect them to know how to use them properly or you kill/exile them that they are never around again. Better to kill them to keep them from talking to church, nobles or otherwise stirring up trouble. Killing the one responsible (that gave the orders) will insure the others really learn the lesson.

Since Mariella would veto membership of Katja for demanding the head of the one acting out of line. Then this will come up at tribunal and I will work on my alternate. (someone that can fight and will just kill the offending grogs right off the bat.

866

Personally I think you are being too dogmatic, and I must say I strongly side with Andrew on this one (after all, he totally let you off of the arrow injury, I think you should compromise). I think that the character of Katja is too arrogant, and asking the head of a grog who has been dilligent in his duties goes too far. Way to far. A demand for an apology would be much more reasonable.

Also, a tribunal case concerning this issue is not something I would enjoy playing. If you stick with Katja, then you have a right as a player character to force the issue. But if you switch characters, then Katja goes off to NPC land and we might not ever hear from her again. And creating a new character designed to kill offending grogs is vengeful and spiteful. Personally, I think you should stick with Katja, not asking for anyones execution, and roleplay a character that has to learn their place in the pecking order and a little humility. It can be a greatly rewarding experience :smiley: For example, over in Novus Mane, Roerto's first idea for a solution to most any problem is Wizard's War or simply killing a whole lot of people. He had to learn that one must choose their battls with caution, and though it is best to negotiate from a position of strength, negotiation often provides a better solution than wholesale warfare (I am referring to the Commune deal he struck with the noblewoman after the duel of honor against Sir Bernard). Conflicts such as this encourage rich character development. Heck, just look at Marvel comics :laughing:.

867

Ask an apology? MAriella tried to kill her, the guards imprisoned her on their own authority. They also tried to kill her. Apology menas letting them off with a slap on the wrist to invite them to do it again. Mariella is planning wizard war over this when this covenant

  1. supposedly covenant has a history of killing the covenFolk and this is for cause and for an example.

  2. Without doing this, Katja's authority as someone that commands and part of those that rule here will be totally undermined.

Alternate character would be my flambeau Perdo specialist. If given cause, she will have armor and sword, killing spells. She would just kill at need.

868

Justus would agree with Mariella on the matter and regarding the discussion I agree with Marko and Andrew. Let’s move beyond this and continue with the gaming. Let Katja move in or make up a new character as you wish.

Justus will spend his 8xp in comprehend magic, his bread and butter on all adventures.

869

If Katja wants revenge, perhaps the best plan is to keep quiet and lay low. Don't let Mariella know of your plans. Be smiling and polite, and when the time is right, inflict the offending grog with horrible nightmares and shrivel his "manhood" with a rotting disease. That would be very satisfying for you and entertaining for the rest of us :smiley:

870

True there are some interesting stories to be told. And if you decide to make a new character then remember that Mariella is a perdo flambeau.

871

Name: Tatiana ex Miscellania

Characteristics: Int +3 Per +1 Pre +1 Com +0
Str +2 Sta +2 Dex +1 Qik +1

Size: 0

[b]Age: 31 (31), [b]Height: 5'9”, [b]Weight: 137 lbs, [b]Gender: Female

Decrepitude: 0

Warping Score: 0 (0)

Confidence: 1 (3)

Virtues:
Gift(Free)
Hermetic Magus(Free)
Strong Faerie Blood(Gold Court Seelie, Free)
Method Caster(Free)
Flawless Magic(Major)
Mastered Spells(Minor)
Affinity with Art(Corpus, Minor)
Affinity with Art(Rego, Minor)
Cautious Sorceror(Minor)
Improved Characteristics(Minor)
Skilled Paren(Minor)
Pussiant Art(Rego, Minor)

Flaws
Deficient Technique(Muto, Free)
Vulnerable Magic(Touch of Bless items, Major)
Covenant Upbringing(Minor)
Compassionate(Major)
Motion Sickness(Minor)
Difficult Spontaneous Magic(Minor)
Weird Magic(Minor)

Personality Traits: Meticulous +2, Cautious +3, Loyal +3

Combat:
Dodge: Init: +2, Attack, Defense +4, Damage
Fist: Init: +2, Attack +1, Defense +3, Damage +0
Kick: Init: +1, Attack +1, Defense +2, Damage +3

Soak: +2

Fatigue levels: OK, 0, -1, -3, -5, Unconscious

Wound Penalties: -1 (1-5), -3 (6-10), -5 (11-15), Incapacitated (16-20)

Abilities: LG: Russian 5 (Formal Phrases)
Artes Liberales 1 (Ceremonial Magic)
Awareness 2 (Searching)
Brawl 1 (Dodge)
Charm 1 (First Impressions)
Chirurgy 1 (BInding wounds)
Code of Hermes 1 (Dealing with Fae)
Concentration 1 (Spell Concentration)
Etiquette 1 (Among Fae)
Finesse 3 (Spell Aiming)
Folk Ken 1 (Magi)
Latin 4 (Hermetic Usage)
Magic Theory 4 (Inventing Spells)
Music 1 (Singing)
Order of Hermes Lore 1 (Magi)
Parma Magica 3 (Corpus)
Penetration 3 (Rego)
Second Sight 2 (Seeing Regios)
Slavic 3 (Polish)
Ural Mountain 2 (magical places)

Equipment: Grimoire, Clothing

Encumbrance: 0

Sigil: Faint pine scent

Twilight Scars: None

Arts: Cr 6 In 3 Mu 0 Pe 5 Re 14+3
An 5 Aq 1 Au 6 Co 9 He 1
Ig 0 Im 6 Me 2 Te 3 Vi 5

Spells Known:
Wizard Leap (ReCo 15) CT:29
- Mastery 3 (Fast Cast, Quick Cast, Still Spell)
Veil of Invisibility (PeIm 20) CT:12
- Mastery 1 (Quiet Cast)
Impact of a Boulder (ReTe 20) CT:23
- Mastery 3 (Multi-Casting, Precise Casting x2)
Circling Winds of Protection (CrAu 20) CT:15
- Mastery 3 (Fast Cast, Quick Cast x2)
Disarm the Attacking Squad (ReCo 15) CT:29
- Mastery 3 (Fast Cast, Multi Cast, Quick Cast)
From Ural's Height (ReCo 25) CT:27
- Mastery 1 (Fast Cast)
Gather the Essence of the Beast (ReVi 15) CT:23
- Mastery 1 (Still Casting)
The Call to Slumber (ReMe 10) CT:20
- Mastery 1 (Penetration)
Sense the Nature of Vis (InVi 5) CT:9
- Mastery 1 (Still Casting)
Physician Eye (InCo 5) CT:13
- Mastery 1 (Still Casting)
Seven League Stride (ReCo 30) CT:27
- Mastery 1 (Fast Casting)
Purification of the Festering Wound (CrCo 20) CT:16
- Mastery 1 (Multi-casting)

Impact of a Boulder
R: Voice, D: Momentary, T: Ind
Hurls a rock up to twice the size of a sling bullet at a target within rage. Unlike the stardard version of Weilding the invisible sling, this spell hurls the stone as a projectile. An Aiming roll is required to hit the intended target, but if it succeeds, Magic Resistance offers no protection. The stone inflicts +10 damage on impact and has a range increment of 20 paces.
(Base 10, +2 Voice)

Disarm the attacking Squad (ReCo 15)
R:Voice, D: Diam, T: Group
One of the hands of each of the target group spasms, causing them to drop anything being held in that hand. It keeps going for the duration preventing that hand from being used. (Same as Spasm of the uncontrolled hand with T: Group instead of ind)
(Base 2: +2 voice, +1 Diam, +2 Group

History: Tatiana was born to one of the faerie lords who dallied with a Volhkzy priestess who had joined the Thousand Cave covenant. Her mother was learning the hermetic arts and how to merge the Volhkzy traditions with hermatic magic. She spent her early years at the covenant. This let her learn latin early. Still her mother was slow to recognze her aging and so her apprenticeship actually started several years after it could have since the other mages either had apprentices or were not wanting one at the time. The time did let her get passing knowledge of other languages from redcaps. Since the covenant had fae obsession and research, she also had plenty of time to develop her second sight and skills for dealing with the fae.

Her training was very rote, methodical with elements of the tradition. Just as the prayers and rituals and deals with the fae lords have to be precise, her own magical training stressed this. She like her mother had the natural affinity to corpus and rego which fit much of the roles the Volhkzy performed. As her apprenticeship completed, she worked to develop in her areas of weakness. She learned a couple more spells. She practiced on her magical defense an precision since she was told it was dangerous beyond the covenant walls. Still she knew that she had to roam and see more than the mountains and she did not believe the obsession that rules in the walls of the covenant. She studied some more in her specialty, in the arts of corpos and creo and then finally left when word came of a covenant being formed at the edge of Novgorod and Rhine. It would be a good place to go and perhaps also her sigil if those westerners were to keep from trying to make Novgorod into part of the rhine.

Thousand Cave Volhkzy Tradition:
Location: Mostly Ural Mountains in Novgorod Tribunal with a few having wandered into Transylvania and Rhine
Major non-Hermetic: Strong Faerie blood (Gold or White Court Seelie), Shape shifter
Minor Hermetic Virtue: Method caster (from volhkzy traditions)
Major Hermtic Flaw: Deficiency Muto

872

Looks good. I trust that you have made your calcualtions correct. If you wish join the council meeting.

873

Salvete Sodales!

During my regular reading of your saga I got the impression that your troupe has lost some active players over the last months, and so I asked Mad Max, whether I could join with a character of my own. He welcomed me and asked me to present myself to the troupe. Today my account was cleared for the PbP usergroup, and so here I am and hope that you will take me in. The character below is mostly based on the concept I presented in the character thread of the rules forum a while ago. I redid the math, changed some figures, redid some spells in order to take the forum's criticism into account and gave him another story flaw. And so I present:

Petrulus ex Miscellanea

character class: Gifted Companion (learned magician)
character concept: copycat mage

born as: Peter Steinhauer
Age: 33 (apprenticed after his 14th year, 4 years after gauntlet)
Decrepitude: 0
Warping: 1(3)
Confidence: 1(3)

Attributes:
Int +3 Per +1 Str -2 Sta +1 Pre +1 Com +3 Dex -3 Qik +1

Virtues:
The Gift, Mathematicus of Bologna, Inoffensive & Alluring to magical creatures, Leader nature, Strong Amulet Magic, Strong Verbal Charms, Arcane Lore, Magus

Flaws:
Hedge Wizard, Major character flaw: Curious, Enemies (witch coven), Rigid Magic

Personality traits:
Curious +3 Pious +1

Abilities:
Artes Liberales (astronomy) 4, Athletics (running) 1, Awareness (searching) 2, Bargain (charms) 2, Brawl (dodging) 1, Carouse (games of chance) 1, Charm (first impressions) 2, Christian Theology (biblical knowledge) 1, Civil and Canon Law (treatment of magic) 1, Code of Hermes (political intrigue) 1, Concentration (Intervention Avoidance) 1, Dominion Lore (Names of Power) 2, Etiquette (academics) 1, Faerie Lore (names of Power) 1, Folk Ken (clergy) 2, Guile (elaborate lies) 3, Hermetic Magic Theory (lab assistance) 1, Infernal Lore (names of power) 1, Intrigue (gossip) 2, Latin (academic usage) 5, Leadership (inspiration) 2, Local Area Lore(personalities) 1, Magical Lore (magical traditions) 2, Mathematici of Bologna Lore (personalities) 1, Medicine (apothecary) 1, Music (Sing) 1, Native Language (extensive vocabulary) 5, Order of Hermes Lore (politics) 1, Parma Magica (Corpus) 3, Penetration (Succurro) 3, Philosophiae (Natural Philosophy) 2, Profession Scribe (copying) 2, Stealth (urban areas) 3, Survival (Swampland) 1, Swim (long distances) 1, Teaching (adolescent students) 1

Arts:
Su 2 Tu 2 Vu 2 Fa 11 Ma 11 Sa 11

Carmina:

  • Incorporation of Sanguine Bestial Forms (SuMa 25/+16)
  • Incorporation of Choleric Bestial Forms (SuMa 25/+16)
  • Strengthening the Versatility of the Body (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Gift of the Bard (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Invocation of the Muses of Music (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Deafness to the Siren Song (TuMa 15/+16)
  • Acquiring the Powers of the Entrancer (SuMa 25/+16)
  • Strengthening the Will of the Entrancer (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Raising the Walls of the Mind (TuMa 15/+16)
  • Gift of the Seer (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Strengthening of the Mystical Eye (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Invocation of the Protection of St. Florian (TuSa 15/+16)
  • Mystical Mastery of the sage's arts (SuFa 15/+16)
  • Luck of the Gambler (SuFa 10/+16)
  • Invoking the Gift of Diana (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Strengthening of Diana's Blessing (SuMa 15/+16)
  • Grant serenity in the face of Hermes' Blessings (SuMa 20/+16)
  • Magician's Second Wind (duration) (SuMa 20/+16)
  • Magician's Second Wind (duration) (SuMa 30/+16)

Background story:
Due to his Gift's strange nature young Peter had many problems with ordinary people during his childhood but always had some interesting friends, even though they tended to be strange somehow. His mother died in childbed when he was six. From then onward he accompanied his father, who worked as a stonemason. When Peter turned 14, his father was working at the buildingsite of a monastery, there was an fire, and his father lost his life. The monks took the boy in, first out of charity, but then the abbot, a learned man who had studied in Bologna and been introduced into the magic arts there, realized that the boy was Gifted, too (and took a spontanous liking to him). He offered him a place among the monks, but instead of keeping him to the usual schedule of work and prayers, he opened his Gift to learned magic and used him as assistant in his studies of magic.
The pair worked on various projects, mainly trying to investigate some 'primitive' magic traditions and to produce charms that allowed them to duplicate their powers. As they were actually quite successful, his master was invited to join the order after some years , and so Peter became an apprentice of the order at the age of 17 – far too late to change his style of magic. During his apprenticeship he could see how his master was repeatedly treated as a second class wizard by some of his sodales and more than once bullied via certamen. The other apprentices of the covenant also tried to give young Peter a similar treatment, but soon found that it was less troublesome for them to accept him, he even became a kind of leading figure among them in their scant spare time. In due time he passed his gauntlet, and hit the road again to get a chance to meet foreign magic users again and to study their arts. During his journey he ran into a group of folk witches who didn't like the idea to be turned into objects of these field studies, and so Petrulus had to move on. He has decided to find a place in a covenant on the fringes of the order, far enough away from these vengeful witches and with ample opportunity to broaden his knowledge. Somehow he heard of Ad Fons (probably from one of the peregrinatores who didn't stay very long), and as it was Justus' pater who introduced Petrulus' pater into the order this seemed like a good place to go, especially as the place is starting to get a reputation as a small place of learning.

Home baked carmina:

  • Incorporation of Sanguine Bestial Forms (SuMa 25, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.): Gives the Target the supernatural virtue of Shapeshifting and the corresponding ability at a level of 4. The shapes are fixed when the charm is developed, here eagle, magpie, owl and duck
    (base 20, Diam. +1)

  • Incorporation of Choleric Bestial Forms (SuMa 25, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.): Gives the Target the supernatural virtue of Shapeshifter and the corresponding ability at a level of 4. The shapes are fixed when the charm is developed, here dog, cat, horse and lion
    (base 20, Diam. +1)

  • Strengthening the Versatility of the Body (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.) Gives the target a bonus of +3 for Shapeshifting rolls.
    (Base 10, Diam. +1)

  • Gift of the Bard (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the Target the supernatural virtue of Enchanting Music and the corresponding ability at a level of 4.
    (Base 10, Diam. +1)

  • Invocation of the Muses of Music (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the target a bonus of +3 for Enchanting Music rolls.
    (Base 10, Diam +1)

  • Deafness to the Siren Song (TuMa 15, R: Touch, Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.) The Ease Factor for Enchanting Music Rolls against the target is raised by 15.
    (Base 5, Touch +1, Diam. +1)

  • Acquiring the Powers of the Entrancer (SuMa 25, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the Target the supernatural virtue of entrancement and the corresponding ability at a level of 4.
    (Base 20, Diam. +1)

  • Strengthening the Will of the Entrancer (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the target a bonus of +3 for Entrancement rolls.
    (Base 10, Diam. +1)

  • Raising the Walls of the Mind (TuMa 15, R: Touch, Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)The Ease Factor for Entrancement Rolls against the target is raised by 15.
    (Base 5, Touch +1, Diam +1)

  • Gift of the Seer (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the Target the supernatural virtue of second sight and the corresponding ability at a level of 4.
    (Base 10, Diam +1)

  • Strengthening of the Mystical Eye (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the target a bonus of +3 for Second Sight rolls.
    (Base 10, Diam. +1)

  • Invocation of the Protection of St. Florian (TuSa 15, R: Touch, Dur.: Diam, T:Ind.) Gives the target a soak bonus of +10 against fire.
    (Base 5, Touch +1, Diam. +1)

  • Mystical Mastery of the sage's arts (SuFa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the Target the general virtue Puissant Artes Liberales.
    (Base 10, Diam. +1)

  • Luck of the Gambler (SuFa 10, R: Per, Dur.: Diam., T: Ind.) Gives the target a bonus of +3 for luck related rolls.
    (Base 5, Diam. +1)

  • Invoking the Gift of Diana (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the Target the supernatural virtue of Animal Ken and the corresponding ability at a level of 4.
    (Base 10, Diam +1)

  • Strengthening of Diana's Blessing (SuMa 15, R: Per., Dur.: Diam., T:Ind.)Gives the target a bonus of +3 for Animal Ken rolls.
    (Base 10, Diam. +1)

  • Grant serenity in the face of Hermes' Blessings (SuMa 20, R: Eye, Dur.: Diam., T: Ind.) Gives the target the supernatural virtue of Immunity to the Gift.
    (Base 10, Eye +1, Diam. +1)

I hope we can have some fun together,
Vale,
Alexios ex Miscellanea

1st edit: just had to insert some spaces, because instead of Dur.: Diam. I got Dur.:smiley:iam; also inserted some bold letters to bring order to the character.

874

I did forget to change one virtue which I will. (No weird magic but rather sensitive to cold. She is tied to the heat/hot/gold court fae)

Petrulus ex Miscellanea looks like he is focused on basically giving supernatural virtues at skill level 4 for everything. I don't know enough about hedge magic to know how the character works.

875

Salve, Ladyphoenix!

Basically your analysis of Petrulus magic is correct, even so with the additional boosting spells his supernatural abilities reach a de facto level of seven (if he has the time to cast a combo of four spells in a row and doesn't suffer from too much fatigue.
Actually, I don't know how well this will work in game, but I'd like to give it a try. - If you have a look at the character's babtisal name and change some vowels in his hermetic name than you might see a source of inspiration :slight_smile:

Vale,
Alexios ex Miscellanea

P.S.: And now I have passed my gauntlet on this forum - finally.

876

I am afraid I must be slow since I am not seeing the inspiration you are talking about.

7 in all supernatural skills is very powerful: esp entrancement and shape shift.

(I might actually learn shapeshift though someday since it is the other favored supernatural virtue for my tradition (and only way I will get any kind of muto effect))

Tatiana is most definately a pagan but I didn't take the major pagan flaw (even if it woudl have been easier than the vulnerability to the divine) as that she is not trying to convert people or being blatant about it.

If her being pagan might actually be significant then perhaps I should change things otherwise I will leave them as they are.

877

I will be unavailable for about a week. I am headed out of town tomorrow, and I will be in Mythic San Francisco for Grand Tribunal MMIX :smiley:

878

About Tatiana
One question about the Flaw Vulnerable Magic(Touch of Bless items, Major), the triggering condition seems a bit too rare for me, but that could be becasue I am interpreting Blessed Item differently. What would count as a blessed item?

I also need to look at Hedge magic more before I can comment on petrulus

879

Holy water, Hosts (cracker), sacremental wine, blessed candle, Censor used in mass, the stole of a priest (most of the priests formal vestments actually), ring of a bishop, the crozier of the biship, the altar of the church, Torah and Tefillah of the jews (the pascal offering used during passover seder too). A stone from the western wall of the ruins of the temple in Jerusalem.

In addtion, obviously any relic or item of truth fatih

Basically the formal representations of the dominion. I am not sure if rosary beads or crosses should count since anyone can make them and they aren't necessarily blessed. This is especially true of the Rosary beads which are really used to count your prayers, not bless of themselves. I guess a cross or rosary that has been blessed by priest or nun would count (not a cross that some peasant carves and holds up.).

That list should be fairly common. Holy water especially. The host and sacremental wine is common too since priest will have it for mass and they are the body and blood of Christ.

Keep in mind, Just like a restriction or her deficiency, Tatiana doesn't tell anyone about her limitation. She just works around it the best that she can. Still, she won't be using veil of invisibility in a church most likely. It will be interesting the first time someone throws holy water on her circling winds of protection.

880

That's good , includes more than I would have thought to include and seems in line with the examples . I just wanted to check on definitions