Talisman Components

[Urien]

however the rules for talismans make the shape and material independent to the amount of Vis you can put it in

Ah True, but it also says:

[i]

" A magus may attune an item with instilled effects as his talisman long a he instilled all the effects personally"

[/i]

Which means...You can make an item, (complete or not) and attune it as your Talisman. This is what I am doing...
What you are referring to is 'the capacity for enchantment'. It also says "...instead depends on the power of the magus to whom it is attuned'
I would not need to do this...
Following that it says "....may be used to prepare a talisman is equal to the sum of the ..."
I am stressing may, because you AREN'T forced to do so...
and prepare because that indicates you are trying to raise the amount of Vis.

the 15 MT is probably a combination of puissant MT and MT affinity, which would only need 300xp .. or only 260 if he has a relevant MT speciality.

That would be an excellent deduction.

I would also like to add that this IS what Verdi do...make devices. Consider, I have see Flame throwers only a handfull of years out of Gauntlet, able to generate fifty something casting scores...
A Specialist should always have an advantage when doing their 'thing'...

That's about 600XP!!!! Shocked
How the hell did you get it so high??

I started with the max..eight IIRC. I spent a lot of time making items for my Covenant in the beginning...simple stuff...but hey.
I traded for MT tractatus when I could...One or two every couple of years helps...
Take MT experience when I make a spell (rare)...
Take exp when I distill Vis...not as rare.
...Be persistant.
We have a Tytalus that has 20 somethings in a couple of Arts...210 exp.
but his MT isn't super high..maybe 6 ish?
He (and others) handle the fluid part of adventures, and I provide the well prepared parts..that tend to be more powerful effects, but not very flexible.
Works pretty good.

[Cuchulainshound]

Wow. Rock on. 8)

[The_Fixer]

Yup, I'm impressed by your dedication

[FluffySquirrel]

Hmmm.. fair enough, I'd have to agree with you.. .. hmmm.. that's good.. I thought I was limited to making a weak talisman.. now my Verditius will be able to make an ungodly powerful one of them too.. heheheh

[Urien]

..Which is why the RAW refer to the Talismans of Verditius (and others to a lesser extent) as objects of great desire...a hundred pawns yields a thousand (?) magnitudes of effects...

Put that on any magus' Christmas list...

[FluffySquirrel]

200 magnitudes, 1000 levels ^^

I'm hoping to get my Verditius elder runes soon, as his first initiation.. .. then the only problem is getting enough vis to use... considering alchemy ^^

[Urien]

Try "Bind Magical Creatures" if you have the resources available and you don't mind turning your Lab into a zoo...
Though this has the problem of getting a number of pawns Equal to its might, and you need to put it into the item....
Or you could just 'Harvest the Vis" and move on to the next story...

[FluffySquirrel]

Not many magical creatures popping up in our story so far.. major philosophic alchemy would be just lovely though.. .. about 24 pawns of Vim a year?.. yes please ^^

[hkdharmon]

about 24 pawns of Vim a year?.. yes please ^^

Sooooo....I guess a Vis source of 5 pawns per art (75/yr) is a bit.....rich? But we have to kill a baby each year to get it. Are we bad?

[qcipher]

OK, I've been reading through this post and getting lost here and there, David Chart's contributions helped settle a few things. For the character I'm running in the PbP in Loch Cailte (Fabrica Diabolica, a Verditius 11 years out of apprenticeship) he made a staff Talisman embedded with jewels. He spent a 7 Seasons on it, and I'd like to see if I did it right or not. I don't mind revealing some of the basics even if other players see them, I'd rather have accuracy than secrets.

Here is the basics:

Base Lab Total: 23 [5 (Int) +6 (Magic Theory and specialty of Inventions) +6 (Philosophiae and specialty of Verditius Runes) +3 (Inventive Genius) +3 (Aura)]

Variables: +6 (Craft Jewlery [embedding jewels] 6) + Arts (all effects use Rego 6, and double the Form, 5 base Form for the magical focus) + 5 On effects added to Talisman

Talisman Staff (Wooden staff, iron shod, with 3 gems embedded in it; Amber, Jasper, and Ruby)

Season 1: Open Enchantment: Total Vis 15 (enchant Ruby), Lab Total 12 plus lose 6 Pawns for Craft Jewelry. The Ruby is what is being opened per the compound item rules.

Season 2: Attune as Talisman, can hold 12 (120 levels) Pawns of effects with current best Arts

Season 3: Add effect “Lifting the Dangling Puppet” Total 25 [Level 15 +5 (24 uses per day) +5 (Item Concentrates)] Lab Total 50. Trigger word “Halt!” Also add Attunement (listed at the end)

Season 4: Add effect “Puppet Show” (as Lifting Puppet, but target Group) “All Halt!” Total 29 [(Base 25 + 6 Uses per day +4)] Lab Total: 51 (+1 for previous Rego effect) Add Attunement

Season 5: Finish Puppet Show enchantment, add Attunement

Season 6: Add effect 'Deflect The Ineffectual Blows' (Once activated it will deflect any and all incoming blows whether from Animal, Herbam, Terram, or Corpus.) “Repel!” and add Attunement.

Deflect the Ineffectual Blows
Re Te (Animal, Herbam, Corpus Requisite)
R:Voice +2 D:Concentration +1 T: Group +2
Base 4 (From Repel the Wooden Shafts), 24 Uses per day +5, Item concentrates +5
Total 35
Lab Total: 52 (+2 for 2 previous effects with Rego)

Season 7: Finish effect, add Attunement

Attunements:
+4 Control Things at a distance (Staff)
+3 Corpus (Amber)
+3 Project Bolt or Missile (Staff)
+4 Destroy Things at a Distance (Staff)
+6 Fire Related effects (Ruby)

Total Vis space used, 10. 2 pawns of effect can still be added at the current best combination, more can be added later when Arts improve.

Is this correct? Did I do it right?

edit, the Puppet show should be level 29

[Agnar]

Is this correct? Did I do it right?

Being a weak enchanter I cant say if you did or not, but do you need extra magnitudes for your requisites in "Deflect the Ineffectual Blows"?

[qcipher]

@Agnar

Is this correct? Did I do it right?

Being a weak enchanter I cant say if you did or not, but do you need extra magnitudes for your requisites in "Deflect the Ineffectual Blows"?

Why would I need extra magnitudes? For the extra Requisites?

edit

You could be right, but I think it would be at most one extra magnitude. The extra magnitudes aren't doing extra effects, they just allow the magic to effect more Forms in the same way. I'd be fine adding 1 extra magnitude, more than that wouldn;t be necessary I think, and leaving it alone would also be fine too IMO.

[FluffySquirrel]

@hkdharmon

about 24 pawns of Vim a year?.. yes please ^^

Sooooo....I guess a Vis source of 5 pawns per art (75/yr) is a bit.....rich? But we have to kill a baby each year to get it. Are we bad?

blink.. blink ... as soon as I thought out a quiet way to kill a baby without anyone noticing.. I'd totally do that... >.>

75 vis a year?.. gaaah... think of all the stuff I could build

[Cuchulainshound]

@hkdharmon

Sooooo....I guess a Vis source of 5 pawns per art (75/yr) is a bit.....rich?

Why guess? Look at the book... (p 72)

There, as a "baseline", it suggests that a "Powerful" covenant has 50/year coming in, of "at least" 5 different Arts.

So, if you're 50% over that... you tell me.

And every Art covered? How... unchallenging. (But if you're having fun, that's the goal, right?)

I'll wait for others, more familiar with the rules than I to comment on the talisman build.

Me, I question if the Craft specialty would apply, and not sure how Philosophia fits in there.  Also what the "invention" specialty in MT covers (or, more precisely, what it would [u]not[/u]!)

[hkdharmon]

Yeah, well, we are dealing with the political ramifications, and the possibility that the source is infernal in nature. We are creating and sacrificing what might be faerie/demon babies. Doing our darndest to make sure nobody notices all the vis because the questions will be awkward.
Got a mercere chapter-house getting built here.
heh.
I really got a bad feeling about this. My SG has a "give them all the rope they want, all the easier to hang them" attitude.

[qcipher]

@Cuchulainshound

@hkdharmon

Sooooo....I guess a Vis source of 5 pawns per art (75/yr) is a bit.....rich?

Why guess? Look at the book... (p 72)

There, as a "baseline", it suggests that a "Powerful" covenant has 50/year coming in, of "at least" 5 different Arts.

So, if you're 50% over that... you tell me.

And every Art covered? How... unchallenging. (But if you're having fun, that's the goal, right?)

I'll wait for others, more familiar with the rules than I to comment on the talisman build.

Me, I question if the Craft specialty would apply, and not sure how Philosophia fits in there.  Also what the "invention" specialty in MT covers (or, more precisely, what it would [u]not[/u]!)

Well IMO the Craft specialty should apply, as it is a staff with embedded jewels. The implication being he knows how to set jewels into unusual items, not just rings and necklaces.

Philosophaie fits in by use of Verditius Runes. A Verditian can add his Philiosophaie + Form and Material bonuses to his lab total (up to a total bonus equal to his Magic Theory). It covers anything basically, allowing him to double his Magic Theory on almost whatever he makes, whereas others can only double it with the right materials and shapes.

The Invention specialty gives him a bonus on lab work where something new is invented. It wouldn't help him when learning a new spell from a lab text, or inventing from a lab text for example.

Edit

I just re-read this and I sounded more than a little snotty, sorry about that.

[Cuchulainshound]

Verdi runes- check.

Craft- Specialty aside, is that another Verdi special mystery ability, to apply Craft to creating a talisman?

@qcipher

The Invention specialty gives him a bonus on lab work where something new is invented. It wouldn't help him when learning a new spell from a lab text, or inventing from a lab text for example.

RAW (p. 66), examples for specialties in Magic Theory are "inventing spells", or "enchanting items". I'm not the SG, but both seem significantly narrower than "inventing stuff", which seems to encompass both those listed specialties and then a lot more.

[qcipher]

@Cuchulainshound

Verdi runes- check.

Craft- Specialty aside, is that another Verdi special mystery ability, to apply Craft to creating a talisman?

@qcipher

The Invention specialty gives him a bonus on lab work where something new is invented. It wouldn't help him when learning a new spell from a lab text, or inventing from a lab text for example.

RAW (p. 66), examples for specialties in Magic Theory are "inventing spells", or "enchanting items". I'm not the SG, but both seem significantly narrower than "inventing stuff", which seems to encompass both those listed specialties and then a lot more.

Point taken, it shall be amended to Enchanting Items, whcih would include Talismans.

If a Verditian has an applicable craft skill for the item being created (blacksmithing when creating a sword for example) then the Craft score is added to the lab total regardless of Magic Theory or any other bonuses, and you also subtract the Craft score from the amount of Vim vis needed to open the item in the first season. That's how I was able to open an item that takes 15 pawns when my MT* 2 was only 10, 12 with the specialty.

[marklawford]

@Cuchulainshound

Verdi runes- check.

Craft- Specialty aside, is that another Verdi special mystery ability, to apply Craft to creating a talisman?

@qcipher

The Invention specialty gives him a bonus on lab work where something new is invented. It wouldn't help him when learning a new spell from a lab text, or inventing from a lab text for example.

RAW (p. 66), examples for specialties in Magic Theory are "inventing spells", or "enchanting items". I'm not the SG, but both seem significantly narrower than "inventing stuff", which seems to encompass both those listed specialties and then a lot more.

I wouldn't allow a sweeping speciality to encompass both inventing spells and inventing enchantments. Pick one. Okay, at the end of the day, the speciality only gives an extra bonus of one, but it is a bonus nonetheless.

[qcipher]

@marklawford

@Cuchulainshound

Verdi runes- check.

Craft- Specialty aside, is that another Verdi special mystery ability, to apply Craft to creating a talisman?

@qcipher

The Invention specialty gives him a bonus on lab work where something new is invented. It wouldn't help him when learning a new spell from a lab text, or inventing from a lab text for example.

RAW (p. 66), examples for specialties in Magic Theory are "inventing spells", or "enchanting items". I'm not the SG, but both seem significantly narrower than "inventing stuff", which seems to encompass both those listed specialties and then a lot more.

I wouldn't allow a sweeping speciality to encompass both inventing spells and inventing enchantments. Pick one. Okay, at the end of the day, the speciality only gives an extra bonus of one, but it is a bonus nonetheless.

Yes, I'll be revising it to Enchanting Items.