How do people handle this?
Pilum of Fire describes a jet of flame flying towards the target.
Grip of the Choking Hand describes the target simply being affected by the spell.
How do you handle targetting in these different situations? Is one or both automatic? What would the roll be against (e.g. Finesse-based attack versus straight combat Defence makes sense for Pilum of Fire, but armour seems unlikely to help with GotCH....) ....?
By default, spells automatically hit, unless they are "indirect" spells like Invisible Sling of Vilano, those require a Finesse-based attack like you describe, to hit. (Basically, spells either need to penetrate Magic Resistance, or they need to be aimed with Finesse.)
Personally I think a lot more spells should be aimed or otherwise resistable, but implementing that in a systematic way is a hefty rewrite.
Yes, Arthur has it. One of the key differences in Ars, compared to other games, is there is no “saving throw” or “attack roll” for most spells. While players magi love it when their magic automatically hits, companions hate it because enemy spells always affect them (barring some form of Magic Resistance).
This seems weird in an rpg, but it very accurately models wizards in myth and fiction. You can read every medieval legend about Merlin and you will never see him “miss” with a spell. If he casts it, it works on you. Likewise, Gandalf does not simply “miss.” So in that regard, at least, it’s fun and cool.
In previous editions there was a rule you could resuscitate. In them, spells which create a medium need to be aimed. Spells which do not create a medium do not.
Kind of- yes those spells never miss miss, but also spells like pilum were rare and not the norm even for legendary magicians. Besides that, I believe passions frequently could throw off beguilement in such cases (which in Ars is restricted to True Feelings).
I personally think with how often Ars has mundanes be relevant foes- and even outright defeat supernatural entities in outright war such as the Sons of Mil- such a setting requires more means of resisting the supernatural at the baseline. But as is, magic just auto hits barring Magic Resistance.
(Arguably you could use Interruption rules but that has it's own caveats)
Hmmm! So I am the only person who houserules this?
(I think I started houseruling it back when I was using RQ2 combat rules with ArM4, and then completely forgot that it was a house rule until someone pulled me up on it on Monday.)
Thanks for the replies, folks!
K
I usually don't mind my NPCs getting steamrolled and Pilum burned, though the all-or-nothing of magic Vs MR is sometimes troublesome.
In the past, I have had a houserule where you could forfeit your next action to dodge out of the way of an auto-hitting spell. I stopped using it though, because I'm really just okay with my players stomping mundanes and our grogs getting wounded.
I kind of adopted the policy of 'The question is not how the magi will solve the problem, the question is what fallout is there from how they decided to solve the problem'.
I do think that kinda renders companions vulnerable, unless they carry relics or the like. Especially if the influence of the Gift pushes them to rash actions.
Agreed - though that is a separate question.
One-shot-kills are available at quite low levels. One of the fun things with Ars is that it shifts the question from "how do I kill this enemy?" to "do I really want to / what are the consequences?"
But that's different from "when the situation descends into chaos, are my spells automatic hits?"
In my experience, in a saga of 4-5 magi, there is only one real combat focused companion, maybe two. My sample size is 4 sagas. While companions are actually quite vulnerable to magical attacks, I also have seen few situations where a companion is put up against a magus, really.
I have had companions on the side of ire for magi.
Beyond that however, the world is filled with Mighted beings a companion may need to face. If we take Legend of Hermes for example, there's a scenario where there's a mandrake with an instant kill "all whom hear my scream die" power which... what is a companion meant to do regarding that besides be deaf?
Remember the caveat that Mentem spells essentially needs to be Voice or Eye to target the mind. Which means if you know about it you can restrict your hearing, or avoid the eye contact. Many troupes seem to forget or ignore these rules but they can be very important in play, especially since that's the magic magi want to use to be more inconspicious rather than blasting Ignem (very vulgar and prone to attention). We've had some great fun with these limitations.
Whilst you can avoid Eye for Eye contact, you can't avoid Voice by such means
The
range is based on the distance that the caster's
voice carries, not on whether the target can hear
it. Deaf targets, stones, targets in a noisy
environment, and targets under the influence of
PeIm spells that stop sounds from reaching them
can all be affected at the normal range
Effectively you cannot avoid voice range mentem effects by just closing your ears.
Your ruling would be closer to T: Sound.
Ah yes, you are absolutely right. We've just been ruling that so long I forgot it's not RAW.
The reason being the same as eye, you need a path to the target for the spell to reach it. Voice is fine for all cases as the target can technically "hear it" as the voice emanations can touch it. So any othet form - even corpus - can be reached. However, for it to reach the mind to utilize Mentem, it was reasoned the path is needed. I.e. Eye or a hearing target. This much more snugly fits mythology and stories. Alas, it's not in RAW so consider it a house rule.
Additionally, eye contact can be forced by some relatively simple means- namely Fooling the Eye.
R: Sight, D: Mom, T: Part
A magus using this spell creates the correct species for
the swift movement of a small bright object, and casts
them at the head of the target. Virtually all humans
have in involuntary reflex that makes their eyes track
the paths of moving objects, particularly those that
might strike them. The magus uses this reflex against
the victim, because when she looks where the object
should be, she makes eye contact with the magus. This
allows the magus to cast spells with Eye Range on the
victim.
This spell does not require a Finesse roll, because it
does not simulate a particular object.
(Base 2, +3 Sight, +1 Part)
This can be resisted by MR, but obviously the companions will typically lack such. Plus the Sight thing is probably unneeded- you can probably do it with R: Touch and save yourself 2 mags if they're close enough to use Eye range.
Edit: I think I misread the power xD. Still, relatively simple to do- at least for magi. This is probably uncommon among Mighted beings, although I can see faeries having it.
Still an extra step, losing time - and honestly I wouldn't allow it to work well against well trained companions - or someone blinded but affected by Eyes of the Bat or cosplaying Daredevil (as an example)
An extra step might not be too relevant outside of combat. And whilst that's a valid rule, RAW it basically effects anyone capable of seeing.
Eyes of the Bat would likely subject a companion to it. You can't really operate Daredevil as a mundane afaik, unless making some generous houserules.
Grip of the Choking Hand is a Corpus spell. It will affect any designated person in range, without aiming, but won't affect an animal (or anything else). No Aiming required, as the target is part of the spell. Any spell which directly specifies the target does not need aiming.
Pilum Of Fire has an Ignem target of "create a flame". The Target is the flame. ... does it need aiming?
Looking at some Terram spells we can see the answer:
The Crystal Dart Mu(Re)Te - always hits its target, although it must Penetrate Magic Resistance
Invisible Sling of Vilano ReTe - hurls the stone as a projectile. An aiming roll is required to hit the intended target.
Wielding The Invisible Sling ReTe - the object always hits but it is resisted by Magic Resistance. Casting requisites of an appropriate Form for the target are required.
And Pit of the Gaping Earth is one of the canonical examples for Aiming. "Make a big hole in the right place"
Still an extra step, losing time - and honestly I wouldn't allow it to work well against well trained companions - or someone blinded but affected by Eyes of the Bat or cosplaying Daredevil (as an example)
alos won't work if they are looking away, and dubious if they are actively involved in something requiring full attention, eg combat.
Remember the caveat that Mentem spells essentially needs to be Voice or Eye to target the mind. Which means if you know about it you can restrict your hearing, or avoid the eye contact. Many troupes seem to forget or ignore these rules but they can be very important in play, especially since that's the magic magi want to use to be more inconspicious rather than blasting Ignem (very vulgar and prone to attention). We've had some great fun with these limitations.
can you quote that from the rules?
ArMDE p.353 appears to contradict you:
Similarly,
Mentem spells affecting everyone in a
Room, Structure, or Boundary have size
modifiers in the normal way.
you don't need Voice or Eye for any of those targets. Can't use Eye, and can use Touch or Sight (if you can manage casting it!). No mention in the Mentem sections either.
Was this a restriction from 3e or 4e?