Terram Damage

Hi, quick question really

My Verditius has a terram affinity, and focuses on terram almost completely for his spells, some of which include summoning 6 foot wide spheres of granite, then controlling them unnaturally (flinging them about or rolling them around mostly)

But the question I have is, what kind of damage do people use for hurling massive chunks of stone at people?

Logically, the stone itself should deal a certain amount of damage just by it's own mass (such as when you summon a sphere above someones head and just drop it on them)

But then, there's also the added impetus of hurling this massive sphere about with ReTe spells, which would seem fair to add extra damage to the base mass of the stone (given the target would have to have their magic resistance penetrated twice, once by the ReTe, and once by the CrTe of the summoned sphere)

Just curious about people's thoughts really.. cause I imagine it's going to come up with my mage eventually ^^

The spells don't, as a rule, gauge damage based on "real world physics"- that is, the same Magnitude spell Creo'ing and Rego'ing a wad of mud at someone doesn't tend to do less damage than one tossing a pointy steel star- there is "game balance" to think about, within reason. This is usually addressed in the RAW via the "complex spells are higher magnitude" clause.

The unofficial rule of thumb is Damage ~= d+M, where M is the Magnitude of the spell- that's very rough, and should always be taken with a view to similar spells, and your Saga and your Players in mind.

We use D10+20 for a boulder summoned above somepnes head. It is likely to smash them, after all. +10 if they roll less than a +9 in a dodge defese roll.



But in 5th Ed. there are no movement rates , no-one can dodge anything. :stuck_out_tongue:

Nor go anywhere unless you have LoHC

Well, IIRC in 4th you didn't move your feet either when dodging, so no biggie here. :slight_smile:



As to Terram damage , it should probably start high at low levels.

Teeth of the Earth Mother
MuTe , Level 35 , does +25 damage.
(page 154)
The base of the spell is 03.

The Earth's Carbuncle
Re(Mu)Te , Level 15 , does +10 damage
(page 156)
The base of the spell is 03.

Creo Ignem Base 20 does +25 damage.
Creo Ignem Base 25 does +30 damage.
Perdo Corpus Base 20 : Inflict an Incapacitating Wound
Perdo Corpus Base 30 : Kill a person

Dropping Rocks on people , if they hit , should inflict significant damage.
One cubic pace of granite weighs 4,590lbs.
The 06' diameter boulder would weigh 19,226lbs.
In the real world , if it fell on you , it would kill you.

The Impact Table on page 181 is probably a good guideline.

Add extra damage for the height the rock falls from.
(just treat it as Falling onto a hard surface , except the hard surface is falling on you)
This would be +01 damage per foot of height the rock falls from.

My rule of thumb when dealing damage with Rego has been an equivalent weapon's damage +6, presuming the base of moving something unnaturally is similar to it being thrown by a moderately skilled (skill 3) strong (Strength +3) man.

It works for Crystal Dart and more or less for other published spells, so I announced it as a House Ruling in case the question ever came up.

As for larger type of weapons, I'd extrapolate from that as well.

Sounds sensible to me. it seems we have been going on the low end of damage caused by boulders :wink: I will suggest this update to the group since we had assingned a +20 randomly.



Hi to all!
At the last game session one of my player (an Elementalist specialized in Terram ) asked me how many damages can deal molten lava.

The corebook says that molten lava is Terram, but for affecting its temperature you need a requisite Ignem, but an elementalist ignore this aspect.

So, my problem is ... how many damage can deal a "Pilum of Magma"???

Please help me!


Add the damage for Pilum of Fire (+15) and The Earth's Carbuncle (+10) together , for example.
The Heat & Corrosion Table on page 181 :

The Pilum of Magma is doing physical damage , as well as heat damage.
The magnitude of the spell should probably be 05 , if you are doing +25 damage though.
(keeping roughly in line with Ignem guidelines ,
Terram not having any base damage guidelines except in Muto or Rego spells)

Others may require a Finesse roll to be used to hit the target ,
but i don't think it is needed.

I would set the damage equal to the same damage of an Ignem spell of the same level - in this case the Pilum of Fire. And iif wanting a difference from the ordinary pilum I would make some other effect in addition to the damage.

I must disagree with our [color=red]Illuminating Sovereign Regnant. :wink:

The mage is an Elementalist , specialized in Terram.
They are bazorting the target with a Pilum of Magma ,
in effect a spear made of molten stone.
The Elementalist would use physical damage for the Terram component ,
with extra damage from the heat.
(it is not a cosmetic effect of the spell)

If you want a damage alternative , use the Injuries option from page 181.
Add a Stress Die to the Damage Bonus.
In this case : (+15 + Stress Die)
If the Pilum of Magma has more than Momentary duration ,
then the damage is applied each combat round , until the Pilum is removed from the target.

There's an old blacksmith truth, that the really hot metal doesn't burn you, because it's "slick hot"- it sears and slides off, leaving a scar, but that's all. It's the less hot metal that's "sticky hot" - that hits your skin and doesn't move, but grabs hold- ouchy.

The advantage the lava would have is not in the heat/damage, but that it has mass, and so (realistically) would tend to knock someone back/down as well as burn. Now, it would also might tend to stick (I'd guess, not having had a lot of experience with it), or just sear and fall away - but for the sake of your saga, I'd worry less about "reality", and more about game balance. True "magma"? No. Magically hot liquid rock? Sure!

Have fun!

Before you can disagree with me you have to know my point :wink:

My suggestion is in no way influenced by the character being Elementalist - it is irrelevant except for calculating the Casting Score. Nor is the suggestion based on comparing the two Forms or to make a guesstimate based on the Injuries section.

My suggestion had two aims: to make it very easy instead of long calculations; and to enforce that anything doing damage involving the realm of Ignem is in the higher 'damage bracket'.

As being a Lieutenant in the fire & rescue service as my daily work and knowing my share on burns I can attest that realism isn't a great factor in Ignem burns. Nor should it be. So I agree fully with the notion of worrying less about realism.

I tend to lean toward letting Ignem being the most destructive element and odnt mind it having a little higher damage output then equivalent spells of other Forms. It's got a nice in-setting ring to it as well. "Fire is valued servant, but a tough master" - all households being dependent on fire, little to hinder a fire from spreading because of poor and close housing, and little in way of fighting - all in all it made fires a customary destroyers of towns. Few towns lived the centuries without a few devastating fires, some of them nearly destroying everything. Fire was also what could cleanse -both in the Purgatory and later in history to 'redeem' heretics- and it was what the guardian angels wielded at the gates to Eden or at other crucial times in biblical history.

In that light I tend, when making a ruling on the damage of other spells, to simply compare it to a CrIg spell at the same base level and take a few levels off. If the realm of fire is involved in a spell -such as with magma- I'd allow it the Ignem damage bracket. I would in fact even question if magma is even Terram but to modern eyes...? I would even think it more appropriate to make it a CrIg(Te) or even a CrIg(Aq) spell.

Excellent point-

In a world where the concept of "magma" is vaguely understood (probably coming from "hell", etc), and the physical world is largely viewed in terms of the 4 elements, "lava" would consist largely of fire and water, and less of "Terram" (since any fool knows that rock/earth isn't liquid!)

A Terram mage should not be using lava so much - that's a far more modern concept.

any spell that allow the mage to shoot magma out of his/her fingers?


There is no such spell in the rules -which is logically why Ugluk is asking- and if you would trouble yourself with reading the core rules for Ars Magica, Abe, you would also have known. Not to much to ask if your interest is to be active on a Forum discussing exactly that!

As mentioned , the spell under discussion was based on a specific example in the Core Rules.
Having access to a version of the rules would be useful.

If magma is seen as an Aquam thing, it poses an interesting concept for a research-minded elementalist:

  • It is made of Fire and Water
  • it cools down forming stone
  • it exudes noxious fumes while flowing (Auram)

In fact it seems like a perfect combination of all 4 elements. There must be story ideas there! :slight_smile: I can see an elementalist covenant in Vesubius as I type this :slight_smile: