Oh, just the standard MuVi guidelines: - ie, any MuVi spell has to be 1 of 3 levels:
low (doesn't change much of the spell, but is only 1/2 the magnitude of the target spell)
medium (changes one or two things, but is equal to the magnitude of the target spell)
high (change a lot, and is twice the magnitude of the target spell)
Mainly I'm saying that an effect that optimizes a target spell for 1 person isn't using any of the listed "medium" or "high" guidelines: the spell guideline isn't being changed, the Range/Target/Duration isn't being changed, and it's TeFo isn't being changed. Therefore, it would logically fall under the "low" guideline.
However - it's not explicitly listed anywhere, so this is just me claiming that, in terms of consistency, it would probably go in the "low" category.
EDIT - however, to be fair: in the past, I've argued that a similar "low" guideline spell could be used to change a Demon's Eternal Oblivion to affect any of the other 3 realms. This did not seem to go over well with the rest of those on this forum.
Seems very reasonable thinking. a MuVi spell could be crafted for a specific person, which "personalises" any effect to that person so that they avoid warping. Half level, then modify for the range to the target creature? Even if it was argued that is wasn't low, its certainly sounds plausible.
Reminds me of that spell which allows the caster to alter their essential nature to take on a blood connection to a target.
Edit - I think it could be argued that it is akin to a change of Target only
I believe MuVi effects are cast on the spell itself - so usually they're considered to be Touch Range (casting it on your own magic spell, right in front of you).
Re: the Target - yeah, I was looking at that. However, the example they give in the book (Sorcerer's Fork) seems to indicate that when they say Target they literally mean "the target the spell is actually being cast on" - that is, "you're casting at me, so I redirect the spell so it's now being cast on Joe instead."
Yup, I follow you and agree. I meant that if I had to choose an existing guideline to try to match to, it would be that one.
I really like this idea for MuVi effects.
I'll have to dig out the rules in RoP:M too, as perhaps a MuVi effect could switch the realm alignment too. That would be a pretty spiffy MuVi effect, and handy (even if it was ruled as a major change)
I suppose the actual spell could be learned by the target - ie, a magus learns to cast a MuVi "optimize spell for me" - and whenever someone casts a spell on them, the magi also casts their version of the optimization spell.
Seeing as these spells are almost always co-operative, it wouldn't be a big deal - they'd be standing right in front of each other. It also keeps one magi from having to learn a new spell each time he's asked to cast the CrCo "Improve my stamina" spell on a different target.
Of course, the highest bonuses are lvl 55 (for a +5); to be effective for the entire route, the magi would have to learn a lvl 30 MuVi spell. Also, they wouldn't be able to be in any sort of circle version of the spell, as multiple people couldn't cast it at the same time. (Unless it was for 1 magi, and multiple grogs, or something like that. Or if other magi didn't mind the warp.)
Given the extra Concentration roll and potential for botches, if I was the guy casting the spell then the target could suck Warping and be happy about it. One Warping Point per +1 is NOT a big deal. If they didn't like it, they can learn Personal versions of the spell and cast it themselves, or pay extra for someone to invent the spell specifically for a person, or use a casting tablet (and given the goal here is to avoid warping, the casting tablet is the worst option - botch and you're eating +7 Warping points on top of however many botches you rolled).
The MuVi effect is superficial (it doesn't really change the spell at all), but would need to be Sun duration to support the ritual casting. So its effect would be twice the (level +1 -1 touch -2 Sun = level -2M), so you'd need a level 28 to cover a level 35 ritual (28-10 = 18, x2 = 36). It would probably take most magi 2 seasons to invent this (unless they're Mu/Vi spec, but they're already Cr/Co or Cr/Me spec). It's not an attractive option for the guy casting the spell. The guy getting the spell could (should?) learn the MuVi spell, which is a much more attractive option.
The level 55 version would need a level MuVi38 (38-10 = 28, 28x2 = 56). Do-able, but still 2 seasons for most (at minimum). Probably not worth it if you're just getting 1-2 rituals cast, more worth it if you're getting a whole suite of Characteristic boosters.
Huh - looks like there's some inconsistency on that one. Wizard's Fork describes it as being touch, but also describes it as being able to cast on other magi's spells. Ah, well - so yeah. If we take Wizard's Fork to be a typo, then yep, it needs to be Voice.
Re: needing the spell to last for Sun - I'm not seeing that necessity. The second line of the guideline states "Most Muto Vim spells last as long as the spell that they have altered, with a nominal duration of Momentary." Not the casting length, but rather the duration. The duration of the spell is Instant, so the casting should be of a similar length. We do see a Concentration check being necessary if the caster is casting both. But if not, then there doesn't seem to be an issue.
(Alternate - put it in a ReVi "Delay spell" effect, with the trigger of "until this ritual completes". That's what I'd do, simply because that delay effect is a nice spell to have in general.)
That being said - I thought there was a ruling that MuVi spells that targeted rituals had to be rituals themselves...but I'm not seeing that anywhere in the guideline. Does anyone know of a location for that?
(EDIT - or is the "instant" effect the reason it needs to be a ritual?)
I'd also agree that the casting tablet isn't the greatest idea...unless the character has massive amounts of anti-botch dice. For example, the character I recently played had both Cautious Sorcerer and a lvl 5 Golden cord. As such, he was at -8 botch dice, just to start. (True, he still had 1 botch die, regardless.)
But yeah - if someone wants a lot of bonuses, but doesn't want the warp, they'd probably be better off learning the "optimized spell" effect for themselves.
I think the description jumped track in that last sentence, and the comment about "cooperating" is re an unstated "if it were cast cooperatively on another spell, which would require voice range". I believe that b/c that's what the base guidelines clearly say, and I'll go with them over any "implication" or interpretation that might be plied out of an otherwise contradictory description.
The sentence starting "If the casting magus is not cooperating" does 2 things: 1) it jumps (without any warning) to 2 magi casting the spells involved, and 2) it clarifies that the caster of "the target spell" has veto power to determine the target(s), not the caster of the MuVi Fork.
It comes out of the big errata for MuVi - consider reading it here.
It is somewhere specified (serf's parma - could anyone find the page perhaps?) that concentration can usually give you about 15 mins per level, in a non-distracting enviroment.
But casting rituals take about a quarter of an hour per magnitude, so you'd need a concentration score no lower than the magnitude of the ritual you're casting, even under optimum conditions.
Doable for level 20 rituals. Less practical for level 35+ rituals.
There seems to be a lot of effort to avoid the 1 point of warping from spells that increase attributes. I mean we're talking about at most 8 points of warping. If we use the advancement rules as a guide, that's equivalent to 4 years of warping. It's not a big deal.
The people trying to game the system will get plenty more than 8, but you're right, most magi will happily eat a few points of warping to bump one or two choice stats. Keep in mind, though, that Warping is what takes most magi out of the system (via Final Twilight), so no one should recklessly accept more Warping if they can help it.
At Warping scores below 7, I'm not too concerned. Bad luck might take a magus into Final Twilight earlier, but that can always happen. At a Warping score of 7 an average roll on both sides of the Twilight Time roll will make anyone go into Final Twilight. Then again, you can spend your time mastering spells and improving your Arts such that your Golden Cord with your familiar is +5 to reduce the likelihood that you have to deal with a Twilight Episode.
Most player magi pursuing this scheme are probably young, and probably have warping scores in the 0-2 range. Let's just say 2. The difference between a score of 2 and 7 is 125 warping points. Even if the players do start to gain a large number of warping points due to botches, they may decide that it's better to burn out than fade away, or they'll put some effort into securing a familiar and making as strong a Golden Cord as possible, mastering their bread and butter spells, and perhaps pursuing a Mystery Cult that can impart Cautious Sorcerer (if one might exist).
Well for Magi low levels of warping are not always a huge deal. When I said the idea of mass producing characteristic raising effects was bit self limiting I was thinking of companions and Grogs as well. The un-gifted types start getting weird at a warping score of 1. That's is just 5 points of warping.
That sounds to me something the player of the grog would calculate while the magus might not even care about the warping. Who wins in that scenario? Generally speaking the magus should.
Actually I would assume the ST would calculate that sort of thing. Also calculating what Flaw would be the most interesting to have the majority of a covenant's grogs aquire at once, because some Magus decided to max their physical stats out with a series of target circle ritual buffs.
I kind of disagree about Supernatural Ability Virtues being bad, but. I think the reason to take one is to do something that you want to do and can't do with Hermetic Magic, or cases where the ability comes with some valuable cheese attached. While it makes no sense for a Hermetic magus to start with the Solomonic Arts, they're worth initiating into later if you can find a sahir who'll do it and preferably a copy of an Art book, for the "magical defense" benefits alone!
They are generally bad. If your concept is an hybrid hermetic/suleiman, then go for it. But Solomonic Virtues are Major, meaning your parens needs a Lab Total of 60 per art! Getting an InVi of 120 is barely possible, meaning you'd have to go the other way and find a sahir willing to help the Order with a Solomonic Travels score around 16 (136 xp, 90 with Affinity). Moreover, I don't think Magical Defenses stack with Parma or Form bonuses (noble's parma on that).
Getting a hybrid Gifted is a whole story in itself, outside of that concept most Supernatural Virtues can be faked easily with hermetic magic.
