Ok I'm confused. If a Sahir tries to initiate a hermetic magus into a Sahir virtue do they calculate an opening total with all the deductions for a gifted individual or do they use a "clean" opening total.
Also what happens to the spirit "powering" a warding. Are they found into an object? Are they considered concentrating on a spell? Need to get to the Jinn chapter. I'm wondering why the Sahir's don't make heavy use of Jinn with the focus power.
P.s. does creating a faerie with the correct mystery count as having summoned a spirit?
All right, you've summoned me Sdelear. Now you get to bargain with me for my aid.
Opening a Hermetic magus to a Solomonic Art is probably effectively impossible, because the character's scores in the Hermetic Arts must be added together and compared to the Opening Total.
The ward doesn't require the spirit to concentrate, and doesn't bind the spirit to the object. The single taqa spent in the casting allows the ward to last as long as the circle or object remains intact. And I suspect that jinn with the focus power are greatly valued.
As long as the faerie appears to be a spirit and the magus finds a vizier to sponsor him at Majlis, I think the Suhhar would accept this as summoning a spirit.
Do Sahir's spells need to be rituals in order to generate permanent healing? The only example says heals instantly, but then is a ritual that also gives extra effects.
No, the effects of non-Ritual naranjs are natural and permanent. However, there aren't any non-Ritual guidelines for healing wounds more quickly than the normal recovery interval.
the chapter on Zoroastrians has a good chunk of information on how current mythic zoroastrians use their holy powers to guide and protect their communities. However, there is very little that speaks to the arcane knowledge and arts employed by the Mazdean magi, like Osthanes. It mentions that in the past, the Zoroastrian mages wielded divine powers along with arcane abilities, but it simply states that such arts are now lost. The only mention of Gifted Zoroastrians is to use the holy magic rules in the RoP: Divine.
As a player playing a Zoroastrian mage looking specifically into the magical tradition of the Persians, I was hoping for more meat regarding what these magical arts were, and how, if any they were different from Hermetic or Solomonic magic... Kind of disappointing, and definitely a missed opportunity.
I also think the book is great, a real tour de force of the mythic Middle East. Congratulations to all the authors.
It's higher fantasy than I had expected, on the high side even for an Arabian Nights game, but the atmosphere sucks me in and makes me want to try a game in that style. I haven't quite figured out the Sahir rules yet and the Djinn have a bit too much RoP:F legacy in them for my taste, but the descriptions of the area and the story seeds alone make the book a real winner.
Good. That was the intent and the brief. It's meant to be different to a tribunal book and push the envelope of the setting a bit to see what happens or can happen.
Sahir are complex and flexible (and limited in different ways) but as a whole Rival Magic level option they' require a different way of constructing depending on what kind of sahir you want to play.
They are a whole alternate Order if you want them to be.
In order to play a basic sahir (summoner / Path of the Circle) you really need to consider what type of jinn you'll be using as the jinn will be what grant your suite of "spontaneous" spells. That's the simplest approach and the legacy from Niall's original concept of sahir in ArM4 Blood & Sand but we've had non-Hermetic summoners since RoP:Infernal (and I posted an Infernal sahir style summoner a while back on SHR). I had some ideas on Planetary Magic as a type of high theurgy but they didn't make the cut for this although they could make it into SubRosa at some stage I suppose.
Adding in the other Solomonic Arts requires a shift in thinking and play style which is what makes the ArM5 sahir such an interesting option for a non-Hermetic saga (IIRC at least one playtest group tried this and had great fun). Erik's done some amazing work on this section in response to all the playtest feedback and really deserves high praise for his work on this.
Since I wrote the Jinn section, I'm interested in your comment about faerie influence - I did draw on RoP:F heavily for the JInn as that seemed to fit the folklore ans stories best. What did you mean exactly?
I was a little disappointed to see that the sahirs don't have ways to compel the spirits, but I gather that's a line decision.
I'd love to see the Planetary theurgy.
I agree with the approach, if you want to make the sahirs the center of a campaign you really need to expand their magic beyond summoning spirits.
I have yet to try to figure out the section mechanically. I'm also not clear on how the various Arts relate to the effects of "natural magic" as described in A&A, i.e., the alchemy, astrology, and medicine presented there. I see references to using the appropriate Abilities. Can sahirs produce the effects of the inceptions in that book and are sahir effects natural in the sense of being unaffected by magic resistance in the same way as A&A effects are?
It's really nitpicking on my part and I don't feel so strongly that way on a second read of the section. I dislike the "faeries are here to tell a story" theme within RoP:F, so a couple points like the Bottles of Suleiman inset bugged me. In general I think you've done a great job of not shoehorning the djinn into existing realm categories. I see them as entities that might be aligned with a particular realm without actually being faeries (or demons, or whatever) in a strict sense and I get the impression that this can be consistent with the book.
Sihr doesn't compel spirits, true, but there are other powers that do. For example, the Mulhidun use Commanding, and the Zoroastrians use Adjuration. But with a high summoning strength, Bargaining is basically compelling. And you can always bind a spirit to an object to make it do what you want indefinitely, though that is generally frowned on by the Suhhar.
Yes and yes. There are also new ritual-level guidelines that are not natural and do have to penetrate resistance.
If a character has the Sahr virtue can he undertake any applicable lab activity? What about if he's also a hermetic magus? Can a hermetic magus who has one or more bonded Jinn also have a familiar? Can a hermetic magus initiate other magi into Sahr and Solomonic arts through a mystery initiation? Can both Magi and Sahir's belong to the same mystery cult? If a magus has a solomonic art but no summoning virtue and summons a spirit through Rego magic can they then use that spirit to cast Solomonic spells? Can they bond the spirit? If a magus has both hermetic and non-hermetic arts, do hermetic virtues apply to both types (assuming the tradition in question lists that virtue as allowed)? Can secondary insight apply across hermetic and non-hermetic forms?
So, there is a little sidebar about a sahir who had become a magical creature and been summoned by a fellow member of the Suhhar. The Grand Vizier then ruled that the first sahir was no longer in the Suhhar and not subject to its rules.
Cool.
So my problem is, it seems that Sihr only affects Jinn. Is this interpretation incorrect? All mention in the Sihr section is about Jinn (noble's parma), and the references throughout the text consistently refer to the summoned beings as "spirits."
Did the sahir in the example become a jinn? Or can Sihr affect other types of magical creatures.
As an aside, wonderful book, all! I can't wait to bring it to this year's GTA up in Tahoe! It'll be my second time attending.
