The Fall of Durenmar

Games Discussion Ars Magica
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I'd like to take the opportunity to crowdsource more interesting ideas what would happen to the Rhine Tribunal, to the Order and various houses if Durenmar falls.

In my current campaign, one thing led to another for many years and the very old dark faerie plot of vengeance at Durenmar (involving the black Fir) has finally come to fruition. (Interested parties can follow it here in #99, in full 500+ page Chronicle posted here: Ars Magica: The Rhineland Chronicle of Collem Leonis )

It's complicated, but in essence and related to some character choices, the dark faeries have subverted the aegis and aura for a long time, and they managed to subvert it to faerie being against the magi (i.e. really difficult casting spells) and invade with hundreds och bochmen and other fae creatures.
This happens at the final night of the Rhine Tribunal (year before the Grand Tribunal)

About 1/3 of Rhine magi have left the tribunal before this happens. Crintera and all Bjornaer have already left (for campaign reasons) and aren't affected at all (but unable/unwilling to help defend), neither are Irencillia (some left, others have passage or know enough about faeries to avoid).

Many magi - but mostly the younger ones are slain, while 1/3 of the magi scatters into forest or manage to get off a Leap of Homecoming or teleport despite negative aegis. Maybe 1/6 of Rhine magi and nearly all Durenmar magi take up defense in the towers while the faeries are in the process of cleaning out (or capturing) the rest. That's pretty much where we are in the game.

Most likely, due to earlier interaction and peace-brokering the dark queen will allow the player magi free passage out (to have potential political repercussions later with the Order), and quite likely will manage to fold the entire site into a regio so Durenmar disappears and will be incredibly hard to find again. The Durenmar elders including Prima Murion, the great library etc still being intact but trapped (something we'll investigate if they manage to break out or players take any action... from diplomacy, to violence, to subterfuge etc.)

[Note: I don't quite run my faeries as Ars Magica raw - they are less predictable, more aware, mysterious, powerful with more might, and are definitely scary.]

Now I think a lot about how this will affect the Order, the Tribunals, Houses and various factions and how they will each react (if at all). Certainly there is immense opportunity for fun sessions investigating all of that. It bears to say that wilderists, most Bjornaer, Merinita and some others have been critical of Durenmar and prominent Rhine magi not fulfilling their oaths as "Guardians of the Forest" and this may be argued as repercussions because the code was broken in the past (don't molest the faeries).
Also in my campaign, the players found out that Durenmar - as well as their own covenant - is built on devastated faerie sites - the old dark queens castle in Durenmar's case, so lot's of old grudges here.
The politics of Rhine is also split by Lotharingian tribunal schemes being uncovered, and likely voted on next year at Grand Tribunal (and where will the Grand Tribunal be held? Lot's of fighting about that for sure).
A delightful mess unless the players somehow turns things around next session (cheeky bastards have managed that a few times).

What do you think? I'd love a ton of ideas how various factions could react and what they'd say.
For sure there would be some rescue attempts - or attempted vengeance - while others laugh at the misfortune. Wild scheming would probably start across all of Europe, and many should see it as opportunity to take action in some way.

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Besides the hermetic knowledge, what might be of real concern is the hermetic history, hidden within Durenmar library. Not the one officially taught, but the one gathered through Archmages conclaves, or through uniquely designed spells for very specific purposes, the secret history.

I could see house Guernicus and Tremere chiefly being concern: there is probably sealed documents regarding secret reveals by Tremere leaders before their memory were erased after the Sundering. Both could be racing, one to keep those secrets buried, the other to recover it.
Then of course, there would be those who wants to own these secrets either for leverage or to use it for themselves.

House Tytalus might seize the opportunity to strike against house Merinita through political agenda to weaken the Code protecting faerie and preventing mages to interfere with them, depicting them as evil/dangerous as demons (oversimplification, Tytalus are more subtle than that). With a policy of "Strike first and negociate from a dominating position" - where the real purpose is to avenge or try to retrieve Tytalus.
They might gain support from at least vis-hungry house Verditius, possibly also house Jerbiton wanting to protect human against Dark faeries.

Flambeau house could see an opportunity to have their own Crusade without having to hide from human. What better cause than freeing the Founding covenant of the Order (regardless if the faerie wrath was warranted or not) ?

Ex Miscellanea as a House is too disorganized for a concerted effort, but some traditions might eventually support one side or the other depending on their affinity.
House Criamon has very likely little interested, but might be concerned about the "relative proximity" of the Cave of Twisting Shadows - it is several hundred miles away, but who knows.

House Mercere might be concerned because of the Hermes portals that could be exploited by Faeries, endangering some of their own covenants and the whole portal network. If this concerned is raised, very likely that many other covenants or even house would make a concerted effort to either destroy their portals (but costly), or petition to retake Durenmar.

Regarding hermetic knowledge and artefacts, it could very quickly degenerate into a hidden race, with many opportunistic groups of mages/covenants deciding to discreetly "repossess" Durenmar treasures - very high risk, but very high reward endeavour. Between breakthrough not disclosed, best library in the whole hermetic Order, countless magical items, maybe even Diedne spells/rituals kept "just in case", mysteries and initiation ceremonies.
Some of these groups can be hired and organised by some mages who managed to escape, but don't want to see their lifework disappeared forever... or to retrieve works from (dead or not) rivals to claim their discovery for themself.

Honestly, considering that it will happen in a regio far from mortal eyes, it can give a unique opportunity to have the biggest gunfight and the wildest magical war ever if you want to drive it in that direction.

From a campaign point of view, as ST, I would see opportunity for a group of mages to have to complete some "stealth missions" for their own benefits, within a relatively short timespan, while the bulk of the Order is gearing for the biggest showdown in hermetic history.
For hundreds of years, mages had to hide their most powerful inventions, spells, items and then, they have a unique opportunity to blow some serious steam. A bit like some militaristic states, with powerful arsenal, having suddenly the opportunity to test their big toys, far from their home turf, convinced that nothing with come to bite them back and haunted them.

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Regarding how I think the houses will react, I've completed ignored this. That's modern day thinking. Converting sacred sites was standard historically. Temples to Thor being converted to Christian. Mosques being built on Temples being built on Synagogues is standard.

It's a reason the fae were annoyed, but considering why your enemy was annoyed, again, modern thinking. Historically, (and still common in a lot of modern minds) if you have the might to take it you can, and if someone takes what is yours, they better defend it.

The houses that see themselves as representing the core and heart of the order Tremere, Jerbiton, Guernicus, Verditus and the remains of Bonisagus will not let this stand.The prohibition about molesting fae is removed in an emergency tribunal, and they go and crush some fae.

Tytalus and Flambeau are always up for a fight and will join in.
Mercere, due to their low gifted numbers, will join the fight, but as couriers mostly, as it's too dangerous to risk losing the few gifted magi they have.

If Merinita does not join in, schism war 2. The only question is, does Merinata get attacked first, or the fae responsible for the fall of Durenmar?

Everyone forgets ex Miscellania was formed to fight an enemy of the order. Some wont be bothered, but I think the Primus will call on Ex Misc to join the fight, and many will.

Criamon, I've always seen them as staying above the politics. I think they'd stay out of it. Same with Bjornaer. Depending on if there's a Merinita fight and how the fight against the fae goes, there may be pressure, similar to the initial pressure on Merinita, that they are with the Order, or against it.

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In a previous campaign we played out that scenario

Durenmar fell and along with it, the end of the domination of the Rhine Tribunal.

1st and 2nd wave of loyalists tried to free Durenmar but failed partly due to the fey. Partly because of hermetic betrayal.

GT was hosted by a new powerful alliance who declared that henceforth the Domus would rotate the privilege of hosting the GT. At the GT it was voted that all efforts would be deployed to investigate the loss of Durenmar but not much was done in the years after. By the time the player characters make it to Durenmar, it is a scavenging adventure where they can trade with the Fey for keepsakes of Durenmar.

Basically alliances raise and fall but politics endure.

W

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Some great ideas here, just what I was looking for. I'll consider to use several of these. Thank you!

Canonically though, I'd expect Magvillus to be the main place for such documents - but there can certainly be extremely sensitive stuff in Durenmar, as it hosts the leading quaesitors for the Rhine.

In my saga, these quaesitors are now besieged in the towers with many other magi - and as the faeries folded the site deep into a regio - no communication is possible as magic including arcane connections (at least in my saga) does not cross world/regios. At least until someone researches a very difficult "target" that can be baked in to accomplish this (one of the players focusing on regios and magical flows have some plans for this).
This also affects the Hermes portals - so they stopped working and didn't allow escape (after the first few perhaps). There is still worry the fae might figure out how to exploit them though.

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Some good points and food for thought. Most magi really won't care, it's the order of things.
However, Irencillia and Merinita likely may and Crintera will certainly use it as an excuse: "See what happens!". The Order will be split on how to answer it, but majority will likely argue for retribution - but for more selfish reasons and political gain. The whole thing will certainly take time and be a political game.
I like the idea of voting to remove the prohibition (I'll likely use it and make a session out of it - players will have feelings and will work to sway things I'm certain, in both directions), but voting doesn't necessarily mean action.
I can definitely see this become the seed that starts Schism War 2, but perhaps more likely just deepens into a two-sides cold war (occasional flare-ups notwithstanding). I'll see where it goes, and how my players push it (if they do so).

Thanks for the perspective :slight_smile:

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Officially yes. But knowledge is power and it is quite reasonable that some "more or less official" copies are kept in Durenmar. Or if it is not copies, dairies of old Archmages involved in secret affairs.
If some of these documents are not supposed to exist, more reasons to recover them as it would expose the house for those shady dealings.

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I'm not sure that a vote to ignore the "don't molest the faeries" part of the Oath is going to lead to open season on all faeries. All the magi swore an oath -- and both Infernal and Divine powers are likely to react to oathbreakers.

On the other hand, agreeing that not dealing with these particular faeries would bring their vengeance upon their sodales seems quite reasonable. You'd probably end up with a Peripheral Code ruling that preemptive molesting of certain faeries to prevent their vengeance to your sodales is not against the Oath. Whether such line-dancing is acceptable to Infernal/Divine opinion might still be in question; probably worth enough caution that it would still prevent all-out war vs Faerie.

Merinita siding with these dark faeries would definitely be Marched, though.

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I've given this scenario some thought. I think @Ezechiel3571 is right about the immediate reactions. Adding to that:

I believe House Merinita would come under intense scrutiny and quite a lot of suspicion, especially since magi Meriniate get out of the whole ordeal with relatively minor losses. I doubt any idea of a malevolent house-wide conpsiracy would gain a lot of traction, but the idea, that Faerie Magic is inherently dangerous, and that Meriniate are dabblers who cannot be trusted - that surely would. It would be a golden moment for any remaining followers of Myanar to reveal themselves and condemn the faerie magi.

I suspect that being in cahoots with any dark faeries would fast become a mortally dangerous stigma, easily a casus belli for wizard war by people you don't even know. Who exactly is in league with dark faeries, or what exactly constitues a dark faerie, would, of course, be pretty vague. I suspect there would be a witch hunt by the more hot-headed or opportunistic elements - at the very least Dankmar would probably have to fight tooth and nail to avoid accusations of collusion, and would probably end up nuked. Considering that Dankmar has an incredible concentration of power (2 extremely powerful, aggressive maga with like 300 years between them, plus a skilled Rego Mentem specialist), quite possibly with faerie aid, this would likely actually mean a bloody siege the kind of which was not seen since the Schism War.

In most tribunals, the incident would, I think lead to a stricter interpretation of the Code. I find it unlikely the Oath itself would change, but the periperheral interpretation would shift towards strongly discouraging any sort of contact with Faeries. Faerie-blooded magi would often face ostracism as spies or worse, knowing agents of faerie plots. Faerie-blooded magi, many of them Meirnitae, would just end up disappeared without any formal declaration of war.

This would, of course, make house Bjornaer very nervous. Not that they'd have any direct, real reason to be afraid, but the whole scenario would come across as all too faimilar. Historical parallels and such.

In the short term, Fengheld, being the most influential covenant, would gain tremendous influence in the tribunal, but in the long run, the Rhine Tribunal would probably lose a lot ofinfluence and importance. It already has a reputation for being corrupt and backwards in the interpretation of the Code. The whole debacle, along with the loss of the most important local asset would probably mark mean a gradual drift into irrelevance. The only quick way to counter that is to somehow ride the whole crisis, either my convincing magi that the Order of Odin poses imminent danger after such a severe blow, or somehow implicating local Meirnitae in the whole tragedy. Both options are slap-patches that are likely to cause more poblems than they solve in the long run.

Considering that relations between the Rhine and the Novgorod tribunals are traditionally sour, and there is a long history of border disputes, I find it almost certain that Novgorod (specifically, the covenant of Leczyca) would try to make territorial gains on the eastern marches of the Rhine Tribunal. This would be very hard to avert, since there are effectively no (canon or semi-canon) covenants in the area that could functionally dispute a claim from Leczyca. At the very least, they would raid Vis sources with impunity for years.

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What I find fascinating is the amount of people saying lots of the Order just don't care. Durenmar is the heart of the Order. The first covenant.

I've always considered there's a degree of selfishness and politics in the order, however, there's a few key elements that mean an extreme outside threat, should have a mostly cohesive order respond with overwhelming force.

Everyone without the Parma think magi are bad people. The only people who can easily get along with magi are other magi. That's a compelling reason to make sure the order is strong.

Magicians are strongest with a cohesive order making good summae and tractatus, having specialist craft magi available to do commission work, etc.

If the fall of Durenmar isn't violently responded to, what does that mean for the longevity of the order, and on a selfish level, the well-being of all magi.

It seems my thoughts on the order are a fair bit removed from others.

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True but it all depends on the setting of the event.

In this case, Durenmar has been dysfunctional for a long time. It has abused its status. The tribunal is entitled and again dysfunctional. Durenmar did not come to help the hundreds of fallen convenants. Durenmar has been fueling a rift with Dankmar for a century. Durenmar has been secretly torturing the fey since its foundation! If some of these a known in the order then the sympathy for Durenmar is quite lessened.

In medieval times things were also often slow to retaliate. Also, there might be some Durenmar hostages where these magi and ressources are kept by the Fey or Dankmar and any further retaliation would mean their death/destruction.

The order has other issues at hand. The Horde in the East, The Infidels in the South, The Infernal in the West & the Divine at the center.

When the Brits burned down the White house, took two years for the Yankees to "retaliate". Maybe the order might wait for the next grand tribunal to set a proper War frame of retaliation.

W

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I have to say I love all the arguments put forth so far. I can almost use them verbatim as different voices during the next emergency (or just regular) tribunal in my campaign. I don't think there is one hard truth, but each faction will see it their own way. Keep em coming!

My campaign will definitely have use for it, as we just finished up session #100 on a pretty epic note (chronicle will be there later in the week if I can manage). The players opted to not do the utmost to stop things, and managed to save their own skins (with some real trouble) through a few difficult battles, cozying up to the arriving dark faerie queen, using some decent wit and some really not-so-witty actions that i never anticipated, including burning nearly three dozen vis through the ordeal, and turning the black kings concubine from an avenging assassin with a personal grudge to a quite gnarly lover - overall pretty crazy and a near-miracle noone died.
In the end, they manage to escape by leveraging their previous non-agression pact with the dark queen and not only saving their last remaining covenat sodales, but also receiving free passage out (may have been observed by desperate other survivors... or it may not have been). The queen is shrewd enough to understand the value of keeping some magi friendly enough to cause division in the Order (which as whole is not her enemy, but Durenmar was). As they traversed the "safe" trail out into the dawn, the site of Durenmar folding into a regio of eternal night.
They're quite aware they need to get their story straight or risk real trouble, and that they'll head into a significant political mess.
They'll be some of few available witnesses (perhaps the last ones to make it out) so definitely be front and center in future investigations (and machinations).
I think at first, spotlight of blame will shine on Irencillia and Merinita, and of course pretty hard on Dankmar - the sworn enemy of Durenmar and dark faerie "aligned". They may or may not have had something to do with it (my players don't know if that's so). However, the faerie ambassador let it slip one of their own covenant brothers (an ex-player merinita) was the one who bloodied the black Fir to allow it to happen - problem!).
Blame will also be wildly thrown on Crintera (they left early - disgusted with tribunal decisions), Fengheld (as a rival strength), the player covenant and everyone in the wannabe-Lotharingian faction. Wild accusations of agents from other Tribunals and even the order of Odin (some magi see them everywhere - the Boogeyman).

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Retaliation for Durenmar is not about sympathy. That may be a motivation for some, but on a selfish level, the fall of Durenmar makes the order look weak, and invites attack elsewhere. That cannot stand!

Ironically, this is where the lack of sympathy works. The magi who are retaliating to make sure people know the order is strong, may be annoyed they are putting their lives on the line for the stupidity of some Durenmar magi. In war, people die, not my problem, may well be a response.

Exactly. I consider the Order should have a similar position to the strategy of the British Empire prior to World War One. An attack on any part of the empire will be responded by all the empire. Australia, compared to it's population size, had one of the higher casualty rate of WWI. Should we have been there? Even with the benefit of hindsight, yes. If we didn't help, why would England help us, if Japan attacked, or China, or Holland from it's base in the Dutch East Indies? If we don't help, and thus the British Empire's response is weaker (I'm not that arrogant, I appreciate only a little weaker), will that make Australia more likely to be attacked? yes.

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Thanks for input.
I feel like I have a brain fart here, but what does "Infernal in the west" specifically point to?

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Mostly the British Islands. Depending on your campaign, Iberia too...

W

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And these are but some reasons to invest in my idea of an island sanctuary. Lol