The "Forgotten" Spells, Part the Second

Games Discussion Ars Magica
1

Continuing my conversion of 1st Ed Spells to 5th Ed.

The old thread was getting unweildy to edit.

CREO IGNEM

Boil Water Elemental: Gen
THEN: Near, Inst
Heats and destroys a water elemental if you can beat its Summon Factor on die + Level.
NOW: Level: Gen , R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
Heats and damages a creature composed of water, such as a Water Elemental. A base level 10 spell will inflict a Light Wound, 20 a Medium, 30 a Heavy, 40 an Incapacitating, and 60 will kill it.
(Base effect, +2 Voice)
NOTE: Opposite Element spells upgraded based on Calabais’s guidelines.

INTELLEGO IGNEM

Sense of the Fires Nearby: 30
THEN: 1 mile, Conc
The locations of all fires larger than candles within 1 mile, and all smaller fires within 100 paces as well, become apparent to you. You also sense the size of the fires. With a Concentration + Int roll of 13+, you can concentrate on a specific fire sensed and get some idea of what is around d it (e.g. people, food, tents).
NOW: Level: 30, R: Per, D: Conc, T: Hearing
The locations of all fires within earshot become apparent to you. Fires are energetic, and healthy campfires (with plenty of fuel) can be heard screaming almost a mile away. Especially large fires can be heard even farther, while dying fires are reduced to whispers. Candles produce sounds similar to soft whistles. Some overlapping or distant fires might require Concentration + Perception 6 + to pick out. With a Concentration + Int roll of 9+ you can concentrate on a specific fire heard and get some idea of what sounds are around it.
(Base effect 10, +1 Conc, +3 Hearing)
NOTE: You can get the same effect without the “hear near a specific fire” for a measly level 10.

PERDO IGNEM

Destroy the Spirit of Fire: Gen
THEN: Near, Inst
You can destroy any fire elemental if you can match its Summon Factor on a die + Level -5.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
Weakens and possibly destroys a creature composed of fire, such as a Fire Elemental. If the spell penetrates the creature’s Magic Resistance, the Elemental loses Might equal to the spell’s base level.
(Base effect, +2 Voice)

Quench the Rippling Flames: 5
THEN: Near, Inst
Puts out a bonfire, leaving the ashes warm.
NOW: Level: 10, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
(Base 4, + 2 Voice)

REGO IGNEM

Bind the Fiend of Fire: Gen
THEN: Near/Spec, Sun
As Bind Spirit of the Water (ReAq Gen), but for fire elementals.
NOW: Level: 45, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
You can control a creature made of fire, and may give it one complex command at a time. The creature may resist a specific command on an Intelligence or Cunning roll of 12+, but this does not end the spell. If you try to bind an elemental again when its first binding wears off, you risk one extra botch die for every day the elemental has been in your service.
(Base 25, +2 Voice, +2 Sun)

Summon the Fiend of Fire: Gen
THEN: Reach, Spec, Ritual, Vim
As Summon Spirit of the Water (ReAq Gen), but for fire elementals.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Arc, D: Sun, T: Ind
You can summon any fire elemental if you know of it and have an Arcane Connection to it. Because of their nature, Arcane Connections to elementals are not as specific as they are to other creatures. For example, fire from a forge would serve as a connection to any elemental that inhabits such places. The level of the spell must exceed the Magic Might of the elemental to be summoned.
(Base Gen, +3 Arc, +2 Sun)

Ward Against the Fiends of Fire: Gen
THEN: Spec, Ring
As Ward Against Spirits of the Water (ReAq Gen), but for Fire Elementals.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Touch, D: Ring, T: Circle
No creature composed of flame, such as a Fire Elemental, whose Magic Might is equal to or less than the level can affect anyone within the circle, or if it is within the circle, affect those outside. Fire creatures cannot directly or indirectly break the magic circle.
(Base Gen, +1 Touch, +2 Ring)

2

CREO IMAGONEM

Restoration of the Lost Image: Gen
THEN: Near, Inst
Cancels the effects of a PeIm spell that masks some sensation, such as invisibility spells, if you can roll the target spell’s Level on die + Level.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
This spell will cancel the effects of any one PeIm spell that masks some sensation, such as invisibility spells, whose level is less than or equal to (spell level + stress die (no botch)).

Fragile Image of the Painted Statue: 5
THEN: Reach, Sun/Year
Makes a still, silent image of anything up to human size. Unlike superior images, this one disappears when touched. Casting prerequisites: varies, appropriate to the object created.
NOW: Level: 5, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
Makes the image of any normal-sized still human form the caster can picture. It affects only the sense of sight.
(Base 1, +2 Voice, +2 Sun)
NOTE: Multi-function illusions seem to have gone the way of the Druids. Not sure if there’s any magnitude boost that would allow it.

Image of the Inanimate Thing: 10
THEN: Reach, Sun/Year
Creates an illusionary object up to one pace in each dimension.
NOW: Level: 10, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
Makes the still image of any man-made object, up to the size of a human. It also affects the sense of touch.
(Base 2, +2 Voice, +2 Sun)
NOTE: Not sure if this is too general, seems equivalent to any animal as Phantasmal Animal.

INTELLEGO IMAGONEM

Image of the Past State: 15
THEN: Reach, Conc
You can see what an object, animal, or person looked like up to one year ago, even if you have only part of the thing to be viewed. For instance, you could tell from ashes what the original object looked like, provided it burned less than a year earlier. Casting prerequisites: appropriate form for the target.
NOW: Level: 15 , R: Touch, D: Conc, T: Ind
Casting Requisite: Based on form of target.
You can see what an object, animal, or person would look like if whole, even if you have only a part of the thing to be viewed. For instance, you could see from ashes what an original object looks like if it was gathered in its current state (e.g. the burnt remains of a door) or what a statue looks like when whole from a disguarded finger, up to the size of a small hut.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +1 Conc, +2 size)
NOTE: Since the old effect is verboten, I tried to come up with a new, similar one.

Eyes of the Past: 25
THEN: Near, Conc
Shows what happened in your present location at a specific time in the past, up to five years ago. You, and only you, can see what happened in the past as if you had been standing where you are when the events took place.
NOW: Level: 20, R: Voice, D: Conc, T: Ind, Req: Mentem
Allows you to see what happened in your presence at a specific time in the past, up to five years ago and create the illusion of those events around you. You can only rewatch events as they happened, not alter how you saw them or perceive them with any sense but sight. This spell will allow you and those near you to see the events and notice things that you had previously not noticed, but will not allow you to see things that were not in your arc of vision at the time.
(Base 3, +2 Voice, +1 Conc, +1 fancy effect, +1 req)
NOTE: Per the discussion below, I added some spelled out limitations, and added the Voice range to allow for a reason to make this spell Imaginem.

Visions of the Wandering Eye: 45
THEN: 10 miles, Conc
Lets you view any area within range from any perspective. You can change perspectives, but each change requires a Concentration + Int roll of 12+. If beings foreign to the area have entered, you can sense their location if you have a casting prerequisite I the medium through or on which they are traveling. For instance, a Terram score of 9+ lets you sense any walking intruders and then aim your vision at them.
NOW: Level: 20, R: Arc, D: Conc, T: Vision, Req: Corpus, Rego, Mentem
Lets you take a lock of your hair that has been rolled into a ball and send it floating around at your command, allowing you to see everything you could from its vantage point. The “eye” floats at your current eye level, and moves at a brisk walking speed. It is quite fragile, and very strong winds or rain would destroy it.
(Base 1, +3 Arc, +1 Conc, +3 Req)

MUTO IMAGONEM

Illusion of the Altered Image: 10
THEN: Near, Sun/Year
Causes an object or illusion up to the size of a door to appear different but still normal. For instance, a door could appear open instead of closed, or a person could appear dirty instead of clean. You change the apparent “state” of the object, but not the object itself. Casting prerequisites: appropriate form for the target.
NOW: ReIm Level: 10, R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind
Causes an object or illusion up to the size of the door to look different but still normal. For instance, a door could look open instead of closed, or a person could look dirty instead of clean.
(Base 3, +1 Touch, +2 Sun)
NOTE: Change this to Rego, to allow some overlap, and to also create some difference from Image Phantom, but also because these are states the object could naturally have.

Illusion of the Altered Image: 10
THEN: Near, Sun/Year, Corporem
A voice affected by this spell sounds like something different, possibly another person’s voice or an animal’s voice. A Finesse roll of 12+ would let you mimic someone’s voice so that even friends would be fooled.
NOW: Level: 5, R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Part
A voice affected by this spell sounds like a different voice, possibly another person’s voice. A Finesse+ Com roll vs. an observer’s Per + Folk Ken would let you mimic someone’s voice so that even friends would be fooled.
(Base 1, +1 Touch, +2 Sun, +1 Part)
NOTE: Perhaps Rego, as voices CAN be imitated. Again, the Part thing is somewhat confusing. Is the voice part of a person, or is a person’s voice still treated as Individual?

Transparency of New-blown Glass: 25
THEN: Reach, Sun/Year
Makes any inanimate thing transparent, including walls and such. The transparency is equal to that of glass, so one can still tell that the object exists.
NOW: PeIm Level: 25 , R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Part
Makes any inanimate thing, up to door size, transparent. The transparency is equal to that of glass, so one can still tell that the object exists.
(Base: 4, +2 Voice, +2 Sun, +1 Part)
NOTE: Used Part so that a chunk of wall could be made transparent.

Visions of the Infernal Terrors: 30
THEN: Near, Sun, Mentem
Causes everything that the target sees to look and sound terrifying. The world looks basically the same, but everything is hideously transformed. The target must make a Stm + Brave roll to see what the effects are: 0- scared to death, 1 to 5- incapacitated with fear, -1 Stm (permanent); 6 to 9- incapacitated with fear, 10 to 15- flee but fight at -5 if cornered or obstructed; 16+ carry on, but at -4 on all rolls.
NOW: Level: 25, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind, Req: Mentem
Causes everything the target sees to look and sound terrifying. The world looks basically the same, but everything is hideously transformed. The target must make a Int + Brave roll to see how affected they are. A roll of 0 or less indicates a loss of all Fatigue levels (fainted); 1 to 9 indicates the target is incapacitated with fear; 10 to 12 indicates the target will attempt to flee to safety, but will fight if cornered or obstructed (with -5 to all rolls); and a 13+ indicates the brave soul can carry on, but with -4 to all rolls.
(Base 2, +2 Voice, +2 Sun, +1 Req, +2 affects all sights and sounds target perceives)

REGO IMAGONEM

Voice from the Air: 5
THEN: Near, Conc
Your voice comes out of the air at a spot you designate; you do not need to move your lips.
NOW: Level: 10, R: Per, D: Conc, T: Ind
Your voice comes out of the air at the spot you designate within 15 paces; your lips are covered by an illusion to look as if they are still.
(Base 5 (sight and sound), +1 Conc)

3

Sorry if my fascination with food, and the magical creation of it, derailed it. :smiley:

I have always had my troubles concerning Ignem on when to include a Requisite and when not to. In this case whether this spell needs an Aquam requisite?

4

No more than Pilum of Fire does.

5

Thank for the correction and the clarification. I think this confusion keeps popping up bc Ignem seems to be the only Form that can effect things consisting of any of the other Forms.

6

That would be because it is a form that is inherently damaging, so it looks like you don't have to "directly affect" the target itself, just create fire close enough to it for it to burn. But anyway, Mighty Torrent of Water and Crystal Dart don't have requisites for their target either.

Now, here, the spell is restricted to water-based targets, by relying on guidelines that make Ignem spells extra effective against Aquam targets. Adding a requisite feels wrong (and counter-productive), regardless of the wording of how the spell is supposed to work: the Auram version feels very contrived in my opinion.

7

CREO MENTEM

Return of Mental Lucidity: Gen
THEN: Reach, Inst, Ritual
Cancels the effects (short of death) of a malign mentem spell if you can match the Level of the spell on die + Level.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
This spell will cancel the effects (short of death) of a malign mentem spell such as Past of Another, whose level is less than or equal to (spell level + stress die (no botch)).
(Base Gen, +2 Voice)
NOTE: Still not sure if this should be a ritual or not, since its design is to break an effect as opposed to healing a natural malady.

Embrace Understanding: 10
THEN: Eye, Inst
Allows a simple concept to be communicated instantly and perfectly. The concept, however, can be neither long nor difficult.
NOW: Level: 5, R: Eye, D: Mom, T: Ind
Allows a simple concept, such as the correct key to open a lock or the location of an important book, to be communicated instantly and perfectly into the mind of the target. The concept can be neither long nor difficult. The thought simply “appears” in the target’s mind with no indication how it got there.
(Base 4, +1 Eye)

INTELLEGO MENTEM

Sense State of Consciousness: 5
THEN: Near, Inst
You can determine the state of consciousness of one other intelligent being. Somc consciousness states are: asleep, awake, meditation, dead, drugged, possessed, and comatose.
NOW: Level: 10, R: Per, D: Mom, T: Smell
(Base 4, +2 Voice)

MUTO MENTEM

Subtle Shift of Heart: 10
THEN: Eye, Sun/Moon
Subtly modifies an emotion, or some elements of it, to a related but different emotion. For instance, loathing could become hate, greed become jealousy, and so on.
NOW: Rego Mentem Level: 10, R: Eye, D: Sun, T: Ind
(Base 3, +1 Eye, +2 Sun)

Emotion of Reversed Intentions: 25
THEN: Eye, Sun/Moon
The main emotion influencing a character at the time of the casting is replaced by its opposite over the next minute. The new emotion is felt as strongly as the original one was, but it lacks justification. Therefore, the reversed emotion can be talked out of someone. The target can resist with an Int roll of 8+.
NOW: Level: 10, R: Eye, D: Sun, T: Ind
(Base 3, +1 Eye, +2 Sun)

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CREO TERRAM

Laden Spirit of the Wind: Gen
THEN: Near, Inst
Throws dirt and dust into an air elemental, weighing it down and destroying it if you can beat its Summon Factor on die + Level.
NOW: Level: Gen , R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
Throws dirt and dust into a creature composed of air, such as an Air Elemental, weighing it down and damaging it. A base level 10 spell will inflict a Light Wound, 20 a Medium, 30 a Heavy, 40 an Incapacitating, and 60 will kill it.
(Base effect, +2 Voice)
NOTE: Opposite Element spells upgraded based on Calabais’s guidelines.

Tooth of the Staff: 5
THEN: Touch, Sun/Inst
Creates a polished, flint spear head. It can appear already fastened on the end of a staff if you have a Herbam prerequisite.
NOW: Level: 10, R: Touch, D: Sun, T: Ind
Casting Requisite: Herbam
Creates a polished, flint metal head. The caster makes an Int + Finesse roll, a 3+ indicates a functional spear head, when attached to a spear or staff making its damage +4. A Finesse roll of 6+ creates one of notable quality (Damage +5), while a roll of 12+ indicates an extraordinary item (Damage +6). The spear head can appear already fastened on the end of a magically created staff if cast with an Herbam Prerequisite (using either the short or long spear description in ArM5, pg 176, modified by the spear head damage).
Casting Requisite: Herbam
(Base: 3, +1 Touch, +2 Sun)
NOTE: I wouldn’t call a spear head “elaborate” so no +1 magnitude bump for it.

Clenching of the Earth’s Mighty Hand: 10
THEN: Near, Sun/Inst
Creates dirt to fill in a pit of up to 3 paces across and 3 paces deep. Only works in earth, not solid rock. (It makes a good follow-up to the Pit of the Gaping Earth [PeTe 15].)
NOW: Rego Terram Level: 10, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Part
Slams the earth shut on a pit or crack up to 50 cubic paces, causing + 10 damage to anything trapped within it. The difficulty in getting out is up to the Storyguide, however solo escape for a completely buried normal individual is doubtful (stress Strength roll of 9+).
(Base 2, +2 Voice, +1 Part, +1 size)
NOTE: The original spell has been renamed, but I liked this name so readjusted the effect to make it different.

Stone of the Hundred Shards: 15
THEN: Touch, Sun, Perdo
Creates a stone, the size of two fists which, if thrown will break into a hundred pieces causing +5 damage to all within ten feet, and +15 damage to anyone hit by the stone itself. The stone will explode when it touches anything after it leaves your hands.
NOW: Level: 15, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
Requisites: Perdo, Rego
Creates a stone, the size of two fists which throws itself unerringly at the indicated target and breaks into a hundred pieces, causing +5 damage to all within 10 feet, and +15 damage to anyone hit by the stone itself.
(Base 3, +2 Voice, +2 requisites)
NOTE: I’m not sure about this explosion effect. The same thing could be done with a group target for about the same effect level (no Perdo Req), but with a different feel.

Rampart of Protecting Earth: 20
Then: Near, Sun/Inst
Creates a wall of packed dirt up to 15 paces wide, 4 paces high, and 2 paces thick. One can knock it down by striking it repeatedly, but two damage rolls must exceed the wall’s +25 Soak roll.
NOW: Level: 10 , R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
Creates a wall of packed dirt up to 100 cubic paces in area (e.g. 12 paces wide, 4 paces high, 2 paces thick). It can be dug through with sharp instruments in a few minutes under most circumstances.
(Base 1, +2 Voice, +2 Sun, +1 size)

Circle of the Faerie Stone: 30
THEN: Near, Sun/Inst, Aimed
Creates a 4 pace high stone wall in a circle up to 10 paces diameter. It has a magic resistance of +20.
NOW: Level: 30, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
Requisite: Imaginem
Creates an ancient looking stone wall, made up of rough slabs of stone covered with runes in a circle up to 4 paces high and 8 paces in diameter. The wall is covered by a sight and touch based illusion to make any attempt to climb the stone or chip through it frustrating at best, and impossible at worst. Per + Search rolls of 12+ are required to make any progress each round. At your option, the circle may contain an entrance into the center and this may be covered by a shifting illusion confusing where one may exit or enter (or both) using the same Search roll as above.
(Base: 3, +2 Voice, +2 Sun, +1 Req, +1 extra sense, +1 size)
NOTE: Changed the effect to something different, since Magic Resistance doesn't work like this any more.

Opening the Earth’s Pore: 40
THEN: Sight, Inst, Ritual, Ignem
Opens a hole from the surface of the earth down to the hot reaches of Hell. Molten rock spews forth out of this hole, accompanied by noxious gases. Except for those in the immediate vicinity of the pore, people can outrun the lava flow. The lava spill covers the land within one mile of the pore, doing +20 damage to anyone caught in it each round. Nasty.
NOW: Level: 50, R: Sight, D: Sun, T: Part, Ritual
Requisite: Ignem
Opens a hole from the surface of the earth down to the hot reaches of Hell. Molten rock spews forth out of this hole, accompanied by noxious gases. Normally people can outrun the lava flow, however those within 15 paces of the pore are hit by some of the lava on the initial eruption. The lava spill covers the land within one mile of the pore, doing +20 damage to anyone caught in it each round. Those outrunning the lava are still dealt +5 damage from heat and toxic gasses. On typical flat ground, the lava takes about an hour to reach the 1 mile point, though it can go much faster down hill (and even outpace a horse). The lava keeps erupting until the duration expires, but at the 1 mile mark the lava hardens and stops flowing. All wooden items are set ablaze, structures are destroyed or filled by the lava flow, rendering them unrecoverable, except by magic.
(Base: 3 (from Muto guideline), +3 Sight, +2 Sun, +1 Part, +1 Req, +4 size)
NOTE: Nasty.

MUTO TERRAM

Statue to Animal: 25
THEN: Reach, Sun/Year, Ritual, Animalem x2
Enchants a hand-sized, earthen or stone statue of an animal. Later, any time someone gives the command word (decided during the ritual), the statue will turn into a life-size specimen of the animal represented. The animal will follow the orders of the person who gave the command word, and will revert to statue form when killed or commanded to do so. Once killed, the statue is no longer magical. One must touch the statue when giving the command word.
NOW: Level: 40, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
Requisite: Animal, Rego
Causes a hand-sized, earthen or stone statue of an animal to grow into the full sized animal it is a copy of. The animal will follow the vocal orders of the magus, and will revert to statue form commanded to do so, which ends the spell. If killed in animal form, the statue is damaged beyond repair. Damage done to the statue while in full animal form is not normally healed, but may be repaired with magic or craft. The animal may be any mundane creature up to size +1. It retains it stone-like soak of +15, but otherwise has the same stats as a normal creature of its type. It has no Magic Might score. Poorly constructed statues can impose penalties upon the full size animal, however a moderately skilled craftsman can create a normal statue in a couple of hours with a Dex + Craft roll of 6+.
(Base 10, +2 Voice, +2 Sun, +1 Req, +1 Extra effect (size change))

PERDO TERRAM

Destroy the Spirit of the Earth: Gen
THEN: Near, Inst
You can destroy any earth elemental if you can match its Summon Factor on a die + Level -5.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Voice, D: Mom, T: Ind
Weakens and possibly destroys a creature composed of earth, such as an Earth Elemental. If the spell penetrates the creature’s Magic Resistance, the Elemental loses Might equal to the spell’s base level.
(Base effect, +2 Voice)

REGO TERRAM

Bind the Spirit of the Earth: Gen
THEN: Near/Spec, Sun
As Bind Spirit of the Water (ReAq Gen), but for earth elementals.
NOW: Level: 45, R: Voice, D: Sun, T: Ind
You can control a creature made of earth, and may give it one complex command at a time. The creature may resist a specific command on an Intelligence or Cunning roll of 12+, but this does not end the spell. If you try to bind an elemental again when its first binding wears off, you risk one extra botch die for every day the elemental has been in your service.
(Base 25, +2 Voice, +2 Sun)

Summon the Spirit of the Earth: Gen
THEN: Reach, Spec, Ritual, Vim
As Summon Spirit of the Water (ReAq Gen), but for earth elementals.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Arc, D: Sun, T: Ind
You can summon any earth elemental if you know of it and have an Arcane Connection to it. Because of their nature, Arcane Connections to elementals are not as specific as they are to other creatures. For example, rock from a mine would serve as a connection to any elemental that inhabits such places. The level of the spell must exceed the Magic Might of the elemental to be summoned.
(Base Gen, +3 Arc, +2 Sun)

Ward Against Spirits of the Earth: Gen
THEN: Spec, Ring
As Ward Against Spirits of the Water (ReAq Gen), but for Earth Elementals.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Touch, D: Ring, T: Circle
No creature composed of flame, such as a Earth Elemental, whose Magic Might is equal to or less than the level can affect anyone within the circle, or if it is within the circle, affect those outside. Earth creatures cannot directly or indirectly break the magic circle.
(Base Gen, +1 Touch, +2 Ring)

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Last batch!

INTELLEGO VIM

Wizard’s Subtle Touch: 5
THEN: Touch, Inst
You can tell whether an object you touch is magical by holding it in your hand and concentrating on it. After a short time the object will feel like it is vibrating very quickly and softly if it is magical.
NOW: Level: 2 , R: Per, D: Mom, T: Touch
You can tell whether an object contains vis, cooked or raw makes no difference. While holding the object in your hand it will feel like the item is vibrating very quickly and softly if it is magical.
(Base 1, +1 Target)

Perceive Magical Scent: 20
THEN: 5 yards, Conc
You become sensitive to magical things as if they gave off a scent. Generally you can sense magical things within five paces of you. You can sense magical things farther away if the magic is powerful and if you make appropriate Per rolls.
NOW: Level: 20, R: Per, D: Conc, T: Smell
You become sensitive to magical things as if they gave off a scent. Generally you can sense any active magic within five paces of you. You can sense active magic farther away if it is powerful and if you make Per + Search rolls.
(Base 5, +1 Conc, +2 Smell)

MUTO VIM

Craft the Bottle of the Elements: Gen
THEN: Reach, Perm, Ritual
With this ritual you can turn a mundane item into a magical bottle capable of holding an elemental. This item must e suitable to the elemental type to be held (e.g. no fire elementals in wooden objects). After the enchantment, the item is able to hold any elemental of a designated element, and the elemental will be released when the item is broken. One must bind an elemental to put it in the bottle. Before breaking the item, a magus can bind it so it will follow orders as soon as it is released. Casting prerequisites: double prerequisites for the appropriate elements.
NOW: Level: , R: Touch, D: Year, T: Ind, Ritual
The item so enchanted can hold an elemental of the appropriate form if its level exceeds the Magic Might of the elemental to be held.
Casting Requisites: By elemental Form
(Base: Gen, +1 Touch, +4 Year)

Shroud Magic: Gen
THEN: Reach, Sun/Perm
Changes the outward appearance of a spell, either one that has already been cast or one that another magus is casting. The spell to be shrouded cannot be over double the Shroud’s level. You can cast this spell while asting the one to be affected if you can roll an Int + Concentration roll of 9+
NOW: Obscure Spell Level: Gen, R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind
Changes the outward appearance of a spell that is currently being cast. That is, this spell can make a Pilum of Fire look like a Pilum of Fiber. The spell to be obscured must be less than twice the level of this spell). You can cast this spell while casting the one to be affected if you can roll an Int + Conc roll of 9+. This spell can only affect a spell for a moment, and longer duration versions may be invented as normal.
(Base: Gen, +1 Touch)
NOTE: The current spell of this name is different, I invented a new name for the old effect.

Transmogrify Spell: Gen
THEN: Near, Inst
You cast this spell as another magus casts another spell. You can divide one dimension of the second spell by two and double another dimension. These dimensions could be strength, time, length, width, height, or number of targets affected. The spell modified cannot have a level higher than double the Transmogrify Spell’s Level. You can also cast this spell simultaneously with another spell to be affected if you can make an Int + Concentration roll of 9+. Casting prerequisites: technique and form of the spell affected.
NOW: Level: Gen, R: Touch, D: Mom, T: Ind
This spell allows you to increase one facet of another spell by two magnitudes while reducing another facet by 1 magnitude. These faucets could be general effect (the effect may increase in power only, not change), range, or target (size or number). Durations may not be affected. The spell modified cannot have a level higher than the Transmogrify Spell’s level. This spell can only affect momentary spells , and longer duration Transmogrify Spells can be invented as normal.
(Base: Gen, +1 Touch)

Whew!

10

Interesting. I like the first spell, but am concerned about it restoring lost writing (such as in a book, or an egyptian hyroglyphics column, or so on).

The second spell is strictly an InMe spell IMO. You are accessing memories of what you saw, not detecting species. This touches on the issue of perfect recall by magic, which is somewhat obtuse. We had huge discssions on this in the past, IIRC. TMRE presents some material on both these issues, I better take another look at it before continuing on this.

11

Well, Yair's post above got my attention on this spell.

As much as I had at times missed this spell, is does not work and cannot be updated to 5th ed. I do however not think that it should be changed to Mentem. Then it would be a completely different spell, although it might then be a possible spell. The reason that does no longer fly and that it was removed from the book is that it is without doubt in contradiction of the Limit of Time: [i]"... This limit also means that Hermetic magic cannot scry on the past or future." /i

There are however persistent rumors that some within the Order might now how to do this anyhow, but that is an entirely different tale...

12

angafea's clever rewriting circumvents the limit of time. The caster is no longer scrying the past, he is scrying his perceptions (well, the memories of these perceptions). That's why it says "what happened in your presence" instead of "what happened in your present location".

13

I recant! :blush: Work at night can at times twist my perception... Hmmm, maybe I could use this spell when in doubt if I read something correctly, and I did actually double check this one. Should have triple checked or more (or maybe it was at that time that I was hiding under the table from the Paradigm Police?).

Having been corrected I will still raise concern. I think that the wording has to be narrowed down to specifying "sensing what you sensed at a specific time in the past"... and changed as you rightfully noted to Mentem. Using this to sense things you did not actually sense at that time is in my eyes still scrying the past with magic. Regardles whether you were there or not. Which is not possible (unless you know the right people with the right connections to... but that is the long and entirely very different story...).

14

In principle I agree, but this brushes right into the issues with magical memory retrieval. Is it possible to perfect a memory? To heal the broken skraps of memory into a whole, much like angafea's image of the past state restores a broken image? Is it possible to "remember" a recital perfectly, even though you barely listened to it at the time? Is it possible to divine the number of oranges spilled on the floor, even though at the time you barely glances them? And if such feats are possible, by what guidelines? Consider for example the following spell from the spells wiki:

Clearly, I need to reread TL to remember what ArM says of these issues.

15

Well. If we state that a persons memory stores more than what we can consciously remember - which is a prequisite for this kind of spell - then it is a question of what a person could potentially have sensed. Already at this point we are moving away from the spell as writen. A magus cannot possibly have seen what happened behind his back or behind a curtain. If he was blindfolded and/or ears filled with beewax he certainly couldn't have seen and/or heard what happened at the location. These are just examples to highlight why the wording should be more specific.

Next your question on what could he then perceivably have sensed? I think I would prefer to dodge the discussion that could come from this by letting it depend on either the level of the spell and/or a modified perception roll (even if a spell the thing he seeks, given that this is a Mentem and not and Intellego spell, is limited by his own perception). Would it for instance be a possibility to measure the spells needed level against the result of the perception roll or vice versa?

16

I updated the spell per some suggestions here. Thanks for the feedback.

Eyes of the Past: 25
THEN: Near, Conc
Shows what happened in your present location at a specific time in the past, up to five years ago. You, and only you, can see what happened in the past as if you had been standing where you are when the events took place.
NOW: Level: 20, R: Voice, D: Conc, T: Ind, Req: Mentem
Allows you to see what happened in your presence at a specific time in the past, up to five years ago and create the illusion of those events around you. You can only rewatch events as they happened, not alter how you saw them or perceive them with any sense but sight. This spell will allow you and those near you to see the events and notice things that you had previously not noticed, but will not allow you to see things that were not in your arc of vision at the time.
(Base 3, +2 Voice, +1 Conc, +1 fancy effect, +1 req)
NOTE: Per the discussion below, I added some spelled out limitations, and added the Voice range to allow for a reason to make this spell Imaginem.

I am out of my depth when it comes to "how medieval people thought memory worked", though I have seen "The Art of Memory" discussed in medieval sources. However even today there are many disagreements, some thinking regression (putting yourself back to a previous time via hypnosis to percieve things you have forgotten) works, others thinking it is simply the power of suggestion. I suppose unless someone comes up with a wise idea from the paradigm (ooh! that word again) we're stuck with what sounds about right to us.

I guess another way to look at it is, are the spell guidelines the limits of Hermetic magic? Can Hermetic magic do nothing more than what is outlined or do anything not specifically ruled out?

Yah yah, the answer is probally a middle ground. Comprimise is boring. :stuck_out_tongue:

17

Eyes of the past breaks the Hermetic limit of time. My belief is that the Hermetic limit of time was added to the game primarily to get eyes of the past out of the game.

This spell makes mysteries even harder to have in play (as if peering into the mortal mind and whispers through the black gate weren't bad enough). It also devalues hermetic divination and (especially) the Criamon path of seeming.

My advice would be to not bring eyes of the past into fifth eddition.

18

My goal in updating the spell was to keep the excellent name from 1st edition, not the effect. Plus it is a relatively quick way to add a bunch more spells to the grimore.

You'll note that my (perhaps confusing) formatting first presents the spell as it was, then updates it to how it might be in 5th edition. My updated version of the spell simply allows you to access your memories of an event, not actually bend time.

Now, that being said, since you're the second bright person to misinterpret, how could I better word the spell to convey the effect I'm seeking?

19

The term "in your presence" is unclear because it could possibly refer to what is presently in the Magus's presence rather than what was in his presence at some time in the past. I think it would be clearer if you spoke in terms of the magus's memories.

There are some spells in the Gurnicus section of True Lineages that deal with the perfection of memories, but analysis of memeories did not allow (IIRC, and I might not) the caster to make new observations that they did not make at the time.

20

It is not a question of how memory might be percieved. I agree with Erik that you have to specify this so that it cannot be used in a way that is not possible because of the Limit of Time. I also think you should change the spell to a InMe with the requisites Cr and Im.

I also support the notion that the Limit of Time was introduced to take exactly spells like this out of the equation.