The Order of Hermes: discussion

A description of the Order of Hermes

I have been having a parallel discussion about this saga over at the ArM Discord.

Schism War

During the Schism War House Diedne was joined by Bjornaer, Merinita, Mercere and (probably) half of Guernicus. This resulted in the usage of one of Fenicil's Rituals, Curse of Thoth, by both sides. The end effect was that vast majority, if not all, of the hermetic magi either died in magical conflagrations or slipped into Twilight leaving the world with only fragments of knowledge to mark their passing.

Was the Schism War pre-Quendalon? Asking because of Merinita and Bjornaer being on the same side.

No idea. Not relevant really since to all of you the names of the houses are quasi-mythical. There might be a pair of tractatus or so around that would allow you to gain Old Order of Hermes Lore 2 or so in a monastery, maybe, but so far this is pure speculation

I'm asking as a player :stuck_out_tongue: Neither of my two potential concepts are going to be all that interested in the old order.

Seems that house merinita had a very short period of hippie activism before they turned into energy vampires.

The Schism War was post-Quendalon Canonically House Merinita stayed neutral as a political entity though a number of individuals sided with House Diedne. The above was my suggestion on how the Schism War could have caused the Order to implode so thoroughly.

I like it, but I would think Bjornaer on the Tremere side and Ex Misc on the Diedne side (remembering the Ex Misc proxy votes that would have prevented war). Because Bjornaer and Quendalon-Merinita hate each other.

The specifics don't matter to us, it would probably be a source of intense academic debate among current scholars, but the effect would be the same, i.e. near total implosion.

Canonically a lot of Ex Miscellenea traditions also hated House Diedne with a passion. Also, canonically Bjornaer walled itself off from the Schism War despite wanting to side with Diedne due to fears that they would be the next targets of Tremere.

I remember reading a blurb by Xavi about the rules of the new Order, regarding the not-Quaesitores and oath and so on, could someone point me toward it?

I want to get an idea on the new standard for "mundane interference" and also how we would have gotten recruited/inducted into the Order.

I found part of it but I remembered something about the Quaesitores only come after you if someone asks them to? That's the bit I was looking for.

Found it:

The first thing to create for the Revived Order is the Oath.

Is it just the old Hermetic Oath, with Bonisagus` rights now dangling in the air and the one-on-one apprenticeship with its responsibilities disregarded by some traditions?
Or was it redacted in these - and perhaps some other - parts by some now famous reformer?

The detailed Peripheral Code will have likely vanished with the old Order of Hermes. But are there now again widely accepted rulings of new Tribunals?

  • Arbitrators, with their appointment, duties and rights, might have been somewhat codified.
  • The communication between the different - small and perhaps temporary - Tribunals would need some procedure and etiquette, or regional conflicts could spin out of control quickly and easily.
  • Do the widely spread sodales, not all organized into covenants, have places of refuge and relief within the Order? Do recognized covenants on their honor provide hospitality to sodales in need?
  • Is there still an organized and maintained Redcap network at least between recognized covenants?

From then top of my head and compiling some notes on my phone. Comments welcome

Covenants tend to be small groups of magi spread over a few miles. The traditional ",building" covenant is rare. Triamore is more an exception than the norm by far (and we can even be spread around as well, just with a bigger central location).
Members of covenants trade services and decide on how to split mystical resources.
Members tend to face threats together.
Members have regular meetings between themselves to discuss stuff affecting them all.
On a sense. A covenant is the smallest tribunal model (see below).

As written. It is a legacy thing, and nobody had tampered with the initiation scripts to prevent bad stuff (tm) from happening.
Bonisagus is a hanging thing. Some people has even claime ftonbe bonisagus to get these right. It did not fly.
Tribunal is how a meeting of several coven(ants) to decide on problems is named.

Carry collections of compiled agreements from other and past tribunals; how a problem was solved.
Bards and itinerant minstrels? Eidetic memory
Investigation and divination skills

  • Has N broken the code?
  • What part of the code has N broken?
  • Is N telling the truth?
    Familiars or animal companions
    Spirits as investigators

Not as RAW. There are messengers for the Order. They are considered Custos and carry and identification, but there is not an European network of messengers. It is more that people that carry the proper token of ID (,that can be a red cap) get protected under the code, especially regarding scrying.
Redcaps tend to belong to one or more covens or covenants in an area. Some of them are developing like the medicci or Templar banking system, but they are way below that level of sofistication yet and much more local.

That sounds very much like how you build a Coven in HMRE.

Yup it does. Basically because we need to find a way to justify a coven of folk witches, an elementalist and an apotechary that enriches stuff being a covenant. They are unlikely to live on the same building like default covenants do. But still, they all CNA be part of the mystical community of the same area.

I see. So that's why we needed to take a different social status than Magus. But if that's the case then the Lucien's Folly won't need to worry about finances because it's not supporting 6+ magi. It's just supporting the manor.

If we live in areas outside of Lucien's Folly, then shouldn't we have separate boons and hooks for those much like in the rules for Covens?

The idea is that the first adventure or so is the roll call for new recruits. So your status and support might change

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Okay, so let's say one of us took Wealthy or Poor and then our Social Status changes, what happens to those V&F? Are the points refunded and re-allocated?

Good question. What do other people think?
I am considering that you can join the main covenant site, in which case I would recommend not taking wealthy or poor pre-game, or decide to join the covenant but live somewhere else. In the later case you live on your own and your social status does not change even if you have access to triamores library and some of the obligations but not all of them.

I am totally open to other points of view here. Just making this up as I go.

You should not just get to swap in or out Wealthy for other Virtues. Otherwise these just amount to free points. For example, at 30 years old with Wealthy, you've got a whole bunch of extra experience, and then you swap out Wealthy for the Major Virtue (or three Minor Virtues) you would have taken otherwise. Now you've got what you would have taken plus a whole bunch of free experience.

I would say, if we're all going to end up with Hermetic Magus as a Virtue eventually, just avoid Wealthy/Poor for now. Build with your normal Social Status and all. Then we'll pick up Hermetic Magus when it applies.

Edit (which seems superfluous now): Xavi's other option, that you keep Wealthy/Poor and that affects your seasons onward also works.

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Well yes. That seems to be the easiest route. We are taking this.