Yes, exactly!
Yes please - I'm also very exited to hear more on the Mercurian goodies!
TMRE introduces the "Neo-Mercurians" which are not the same bunch as the semi-official "Cult of Mercury" familiar to readers from the other books.
The Neo-Mercurians are, they would tell you, a newer purer reconstruction of the Anicent Cult with all reverence. The Official Cult of Mercury is a bunch of pompous old windbags, hide-bound, and with no understanding of a proper interpretation of Mercurianism.
I haven't read the mercurian section yet. I won't get a chance tonight (I'm running my Ars game).
I did read the divination rules last night and I they look very workable but they also look like the sort of thing that might look good in a book but not be workable in play. I'll need to try them out.
Hmm, that's a possible valid explanation for the distinction, but then Hermetic Theurgy should have another name (e.g. Hermetic Spirit Magic) and belong in the Spirit Magic group.
We know, we know. It's not Great Elixir that is modeled on Becoming but the other way around, Animae Magic is inspired by Hermetic Theurgy/Spirit Binding, and not the opposite, and so on. Honor to the guys that first conceived the concepts. 
That's we know, too. Using TMRE Virtues in individual sagas will be a customizing feast for conceiving cults with specific virtues sets. Besides, it's all ultimately unimportant, because of the possiblity for self-initation and experimenting to create new Initation scripts. With the possible exception of Mystery Virtues completely and totally antithetic to own cult's beliefs and practices (i.e. the Lore one uses to initiate), it is absolutely possible, in theory, for a determined and industrious mystagogue to hit the lab and create new Initation scripts for the vast majority, if not almost all, of the Virtues in the corebook, HoH:MC, and TMRE. Theoretically any mage can create any cult with any collection of Virtues by repetead script experimentation and self-initiation. It's just a problem of talent and effort, just like original research. Going with a preexisting script and an expert mystagogue is so much easier, therefore most mystae mages simply subscribe to existing cults that vibe with their interests and beliefs.
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So you joined the Children of Hermes Fruny? I should have guessed, and clearly you are already a high level initiate! (Btw if you don['t understand that - you will when you see the book!)
cj x
Er, maybe I shoukld hazard an explanation here?
Spirit Magic is based upon, well Spirits. These spirits are NOT always ghosts, but rather pure magical spirits, which were never human, and which are really just embodied magical power, and it has a lot to do with 13th century spirit binding magic, from the Middle Eastern traditions (genie in lamp as an obvious example) through to western European magics which command spirits to enchant talismans (NOT 'T'alismans) and amulets via coercing spirits. Some spirit magic however clearly derives from the traditions of Necromancy, in its proper meaning of conversing with the dead, and summoning andcient wizards ghosts to interrogate them for magical secrets is a valid path to magical power. You can also do proper Necromanteum greaeco-roman magical stuff, especially in conjunction with Divination, and Dream Magic. Spirit Magic in TMRE is a hybrid set of techniques of thaumurturgy with similar themes...
(more to follow)
Name Magic on the other hand is Theurgy, not thaumurturgy. You evoke names of potent magical entities - except they are not really anmes, but synthemata - secret passwords, which look like names but are really incredibly complex symbolic expressions of the underlying reality of the entity - a "True Name" to use Ursula le Guin's term.
The theurgical magic is directly modelled on Gnostic psychopompic magics, where names and understanding of "higher daemonic intelligences" allows continual "ascent". Becoming a demigod is the ultimate possibility of this "magical religion", but a demigod whose worshippers can still summon you, and bind you to perform tasks by your Name. It is based upon medieval manglings of gnostic papyri, read by heretic hermeticists guilty of colossal hubris... Many theurgists reconstruct their grimoires from hints in the anti-heresy writings of the Patristic era of the Church, while pursuing worldy gratification and or severe ascetism - "she was in to S&M and Bible studies"...
It should have a very different feel to Spirit Magic, and is really quite strange... Luckily if you don't like the fluff and examples, you can construct your own with Neil's fine virtues... (and yes I did work/contribute on a couple, but they are overwhelmingly Neils, every single mechanic is!)
cj x
I hope that makes sense.
cj x
Thanks for the explanation, cj. I have no problem with Name magic, and indeed that's one of the most appealing magic types and mysteries for me, I yearn to have TMRE so I may go wild with my Merinita theurgist concept combining faerie and theurgist mysteries to be the ultimate at conjuration/summoning/sympathetic magic.
I also grok the concept of spirit magic as you describe it. I just have some troubles reconciling it with the set of Virtues that are assigned to this Mystery. IMO spirit magic/necromancy should be all about summoning and bargaining or commanding spirits for services. Yet there is no virtue in this mystery that focuses on this. The powers that are most close to this (Hermetic Theurgy and Goetic art of Summoning) belong elsewhere. I would have expected some general-purpose summoning art like a magical version of Animae Magic, it is sorely lacking. Binding spirits to power objects or as familiars is too little, too indirect to give me the right feeling.
Again, this is a minor quibble that is not ruining my so far deep appreciation of the book.
Thank you for the first goodies on the mercurians!
I guess some of the Cults history might be saved for next years seeker-book!
Cheers
Jeppe
(still eagerly waiting his own copy of TMRE)
I WANT TO SUBSCRIBE!! What's the initial subscription fee ? Conditions for cancellation ? Are the scripts quality-certified by the Library of Durenmar ? Can I copy scripts for my apprentice and keep in multiple laboratories ? Is the offer valid for the Loch Legh Tribunal ?
Hey - have anyone seen my latest issue of Seekers Digest? I remember borrowing it to some fella, but now I can't remember who - and I really need it to order my Special Subscription Offer: Map of Lost Power and Hidden Treasure!!!
Hmm, it must be the same guy who borrowed my copy of Journal of Hermetic Research (The World's Greatest Source for Lab Texts ! Unvaluable for the Serious Hermetic Researcher !) with the article on how to bind a faerie succubus familiar (before I could use it myself 
) and the volume of Encyclopaedia Magica (All The Best Authority Summae for Hermetic Arts, Arcane Abilties and Supernatural Abilities in One Elegant Volume Set ! Updated Yearly !) with the Auram Authority Summa, and never returned them. Jerk.
Since the well for TMRE spoilers seems to have been temporarily exausted while the poor overburdened Erik gets some breathing space, allow me to place the last spoiler bit I dredged up from the demo:
Dream Magic
Dream Magic – you have been initiated into the methods of sending your spirit into your own or other people’s dreams.
Greater Dream Magic – actual physical travel to and from dreams.
Dream Interpreter (Divination) Supernatural Ability. You may interpret the dreams of others or yourself, and may call dreams.
In Dream, all is illusion, and all magic uses the Form of Imaginem,
Is this in any way similar to the RoP:tD Holy Method?
Thanks,
Jarkman
We made TMRE focus closely on Hermetic magi and Hermetic Magic.
We've left Hedge-type Summoning and Necromancy, and the bargaining for services for "Some Other Book" (over which we have no control, not even whether it exists...)
no, it's a magical method, similar to (indeed a variation on) the Hermetic Divination Ability of TMRE, which uses skill (Supernatural Ability) + appropriateness + props (devices, method etc) vs an equivalent Hermetic InXx spell level.
TMRE makes Hermetic Divination itself a Major Virtue, but adding additional Hermetic Divination Virtues (new Methods) is only a Minor Virtue; thus Dream Interpreter is either Major (your first Divination Method) or Minor (2nd+).
The other variation is that Dream Interpreter gives a minor ability to bring about dreams in a willing subject... but it's similar enough that it counts as one of the set of Divinations, and different enough to get a write-up section.
Note also that it shares the one Hermetic Divination Ability used by all methods (you don't need separate XP pools for each type of Divination!)
Hee hee hee (the sound of insane giggling from the repeated-experiment self-iniating magus).
Those who plan a career in devising new Initiations ought to take note that it does use the Experimentation Table, and it (is designed to) often go wrong. The consequences of that "wrong" are ... interesting...
yes, most magi subscribe to an existing [color=yellow]catalogue Cult.
If Quendalon and Pendule can do it, my PC will find a way 8)
What is it like, in terms of difficulty, time, and danger ? Experimenting for usual lab activities, or original research breakthrough, or somewhere in between ? Does it one get a significant bonus for experimenting to modify an existing script ? E.g. I have a script version from another cult, but I want to adapt it to my cult (thematically incompatible Lores), or I tried to modify a script from my cult but I failed (e.g. I did want to change the specific Quest or Ordeal) the roll, so I have to do it by experimentation.
E.g. I am a Merinita who ahm... appropriated a copy of the Huntress In the Wood Initation Script for Hermetic Theurgy, I want to change it so that the Ordeal is Supernatural Nuisance (Divine or Infernal) instead of Supernatural Nuisance (Fae).
Fair enough - quite rightly so. Still, how much is directly dependent on Arts specifically and how much is stand alone Supernatural Abilities or applicable to say existing examples of Powers & Methods?
Ie. can we use TMRE to make slightly more interesting "Magic" Realm hedgies than the corebook (and select sections of HoH:TL ie Criamon and MErinitia section) currently allow?
Thanks,
Jarkman