Hi all fellow magicians!
I would like ask for the origin of the word GROG.
I need to translate it somehow into my language (slovak) and would like to know on what to base it because I cant find a suitable translation for it...
Thx!
Joe
Not sure where the Ars usage came from ...
Grog of course being a mix of water and (other things) with rum...
There is a reference to Grog being used in Australia as a term for: "diluted, adultered and substandard rum..."
(shrug) This implies a negative of course...
Why do you need to have a different word? If you are using "Perdo, Muto, Corpus" etc.. Why not just use the term...???
I allways thought of the grogs as grunts... The average footsoldiers, with little glory and lots of hard work...
Well Urien,
Perdo, Rego, Vim are Latin words and thus they add to the "feeling" of Ars Magica. But Grog is also for me something as a basic warrior, the grunt-style (as ulf says), the hardworker, the expendable one.
But the problem is I cant think of a suitable slovak word for that... If someone could find a base for the Grog word, maybe I could derive something...
Joe
I think it might have inspired by the French grognard -meaning a seasoned soldier- from the time of Napoleon. In that case it is one of the few in-game terms of Ars that isn't derived from Latin.
When translating Ars terms from English to Danish I tend to go for their Latin root and then simply either pronounce them in Latin or a bastardized Danish version of them. I've only done this for the terms used by characters ingame - what terms we use as players is to me irrelevant whether its English, Danish or something else..
As this is not doable with grogs I've considered either using custos or turba, as they are both Latin and thus grant you something to lean on.
They say that the eskimos got a thousand words for snow. Then it is hardly any surprise that the Romans had many many words for soldiers. Here's a list - you could choose anyone of them and make it the common slang used ingame by the characters -either across the Order or only in the region you play- and you could twist the Latin core to sound more like the local tongue or simply just make it easier to your own 
alauda -ae f. [a lark]; also [the name of a legion formed by Caesar in Gaul]; in pl. Alaudae -arum , [the soldiers of this legion].
antepilani -orum m. [front line soldiers] (i.e. the hastati and principes).
antesignanus -i m. usually plur. , [soldiers chosen for a place in front of the standards]; hence, sing., [a leader].
arma -orum n. pl. [defensive arms , armor, weapons of war]; hence [war, soldiers, military power; protection, defense];in gen. [tools, equipment].
armatura -ae f. [equipment , armor]; meton., [armed soldiers].
beneficiarius -a -um [of a favor]; m. pl. as subst. , [privileged soldiers].
caliga -ae f. [a stout shoe or boot] (esp. a soldier's).
caligatus -a -um [wearing heavy boots]; m. as subst. , [a private soldier].
centuria -ae f. [a division of 100; a company of soldiers; a century , a part of the Roman people, as divided by Servius Tullius].
chiliarches -ae and chiliarchus -i , m. [a commander of 1,000 soldiers]; among Persians, [chancellor, or prime minister].
clipeatus -a -um [armed with a shield]; m. pl. as subst. , [soldiers with shields].
commanipularis -is m. [a soldier belonging to the same company].
conquisitio -onis f. [search , collection]; of soldiers, [levying, conscription].
covinnarius -i m. [a soldier in a war chariot].
duoetvicesimani -orum m. [soldiers of the 22nd legion].
duplicarius -a -um: 'miles' [a soldier who gets double pay].
emereo -ere -ui -itum and emereor -eri -itus dep.[to obtain by service , earn completely; to deserve well of a person]; milit., [to earn pay, to serve, finish one's time]. Hence partic. emeritus -a -um: m. as subst., [a soldier that has served his time, a veteran]; as adj., [worn out, finished with].
evoco -are [to call out]; esp. [to summon the spirits of the dead , or a deity]; milit. and polit. [to call out, call up, summon]. Transf., [to draw out, draw on; to call forth, produce]. M. pl. of partic. as subst., evocati -orum, [veteran soldiers recalled to the colors].
exercitus (2) -us m. [training; a trained body of soldiers , army]; esp. [the infantry]; poet. in gen., [crowd, swarm].
ferentarius -a -um [a light-armed soldier].
ferratus -a -um [furnished or covered with iron]; 'servi' , [in irons]; m. pl. as subst. [soldiers in armor].
funditor -oris m. [a soldier with a sling , a slinger].
gregarius -a -um [of a herd or flock]; 'miles' , [a private soldier].
grex gregis m. [a herd , flock, drove]; of people, [a troop, band, esp. a philosophical sect or troop or soldiers]; 'grege facto', [in close order].
iaculator -oris m. [a thrower]; esp. [a javelin-man , light-armed soldier].
latro (2) -onis m. [a hired servant or mercenary soldier; a robber , bandit, brigand; a hunter; a piece on a draught-board].
manipularis (maniplaris) -e [belonging to a maniple]; m. as subst. [a private soldier , a fellow-soldier].
Mars Martis m. (old form , Mavors), [Mars, god of agriculture and of war]. Transf., [war, battle, fight]. Adj. Martius and poet. Mavortius -a -um, [of Mars]; 'Martius (mensis)', [the month of March]; [warlike]. Adj. Martialis -e, [of Mars]; m. as subst. [a priest of Mars or soldier of the Legio Martia].
mereo -ere -ui -itum and mereor -eri -itus , dep. [to deserve, earn, obtain]; esp. [to earn pay as a soldier, serve as a soldier]. Hence perf. partic. meritus -a -um, [deserving]; in pass. sense, [deserved]. N. as subst., meritum -i, [desert, merit; a good action, benefit, service; blame, fault, grounds, reason]. Abl. as adv. merito, [deservedly, rightly].
miles -itis c. [a soldier; a private soldier , infantryman]; coll. [soldiery].
militaris -e [of a soldier , military]; m. as subst. [a soldier]; adv. militariter, [in a soldierly manner].
militia -ae f. [military service , warfare]; 'domi militiaeque', [at home and abroad, at peace and in war]; meton., [the military, soldiery].
milito -are [to serve as a soldier , be a soldier].
nomen -inis n. [a name]; 'nomen dare' , [to go for a soldier, enlist]; 'nomen (hominis) deferre', [to give information against, to accuse]; 'nomina solvere', [to pay debts]; 'nomen Romanum', [the Roman power]; 'nomine meo', [in my name, on my behalf].
pedes -itis m.: adj. , [going on foot]; subst., [a foot soldier]; coll., [infantry].
peltastes or -a -ae m. [a soldier armed with the pelta].
phalangitae -arum m. pl. [soldiers belonging to a phalanx].
primani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the first legion].
quartadecumani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the fourteenth legion].
quartanus -a -um [of the fourth]; f. as subst. (sc. febris) , [a quartan fever]; m. pl. as subst. [the soldiers of the fourth legion].
quintadecimani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the fifteenth legion].
quintanus -a -um [of the fifth]; f. as subst. (sc. via) , [a road in a Roman camp]; m. pl. [soldiers of the fifth legion].
secundani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the second legion].
septimanus -a -um [of the seventh]; m. pl. as subst. [soldiers of the seventh legion].
sextadecimani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the 16th legion].
stipendiarius -a -um (1) [liable to taxes , tributary]; m. pl. as subst., [tributaries]. (2) of soldiers, [serving for pay].
tertiadecimani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the thirteenth legion].
tertianus -a -um (1) [of the third day]; f. as subst. [a tertian fever]. (2) [belonging to the third legion]; m. pl. as subst. [soldiers of the third legion].
tiro -onis m. [a young soldier; a recruit , beginner, learner].
triarii -orum m. pl. [experienced Roman soldiers , drawn up in the third rank, behind the others].
unetvicesimani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the twenty-first legion].
veteranus -a -um [old]; m. pl. [old soldiers , veterans].
vicesimani -orum m. pl. [soldiers of the twentieth legion].
vir viri m. [a man , male person]; esp. [a grown man; a husband; a man of character or courage, 'he-man']; milit. [a soldier, esp. an infantryman; a single man, individual].
If you are looking for a more generel term for servants:
adsecula (adsecia) -ae m. [follower , servant, sycophant].
apparitio -onis f. [waiting upon , serving]; meton., plur. [servants].
apparitor -oris m. [a servant]; esp. [a public servant , e.g. lictor].
ausculto -are [to hear attentively , listen to]; sometimes also [to obey]; of servants, [to attend, wait].
calo (2) -onis m. [a soldier's servant]; in gen. , [a drudge].
familiaris -e (1) [belonging to the slaves of a house]; as subst. familiaris -is , m. [a servant, slave]. (2) [belonging to a family or household; known in the house or family, intimate, friendly]; m. and f. as subst.[a familiar friend]. (3) in augury, 'fissum familiare', or 'pars familiaris', [the part of the entrails relating to the persons sacrificing]. Adv. familiariter, [familiarly, intimately].
famularis -e [relating to servants or slaves].
famulor -ari dep. [to be a servant , to serve].
famulus -a -um [serving , servile]; as subst. m. famulus (famul) -i, [a servant, slave, attendant]; f. famula -ae, [a female slave, handmaid].
latro (2) -onis m. [a hired servant or mercenary soldier; a robber , bandit, brigand; a hunter; a piece on a draught-board].
mercennarius (mercenarius) -a -um [hired , paid]; m. as subst. [a hired servant].
minister -tri m. [servant , attendant, assistant].
ministra -ae f. [servant , attendant, assistant].
ministrator -oris m. [a servant , attendant, assistant].
ministratrix -icis f. [a servant , attendant, assistant].
servitium -i n. [slavery , servitude, subjection]; concr. [slaves, servants, a household].
servus -a -um adj. [serving , servile, subject]; legal, of lands, etc., [subject to other rights]; m. and f. as subst. [a slave, servant].
vicarius -a -um [substituted , vicarious]; m. as subst. [a substitute]; esp. [an under- servant].
(sorry for the long post)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.C._(comic
(you will need to cut & paste the whole URL)
Grog is also a character in the B.C. Comic Strip.
I doubt this is the Ars Magica source , but in the strip he does provide comic relief due to being more primitive than the other cave people.
Hehe, what a linguist 8) I shall see what I can use...
Thx for the comic, nice one!
Joe
Copy-paste is a powerful tool! A pity that we are obliged to share...
Somehow I imagine that a Modern Day mythic European wizard would have a Scanner in his house and litterarelt thousands of spells and labnotes at his/her fingertips.
The term gregalis can mean companions, associates, or accomplices. Perhaps in the Order the term has been vulgarized into "gregus" or even "grogus" in the singular?
Cheers!
Funny how even -is or -us suffix can make something sound so much more in-setting and be easier on the tongue as well!
I had thought "grog" referred to the drinks imbibed by the grogs. Wikipedia lists it as a British rather than Roman tradition, however. 
That reminds me of the "Hot Toddies" my dad would give me when I had a cold.
Agreed. Gregalis or grogus sounds much better than grog. In fact I think I will start to refer to companions as gregalis and grogs as grogus. Way cooler! 
Cheers,
Xavi
First Edition of Ars Magica said that grogs were called grogs because that's what they drink. Unfortunately that is probably an anachronism because I don't believe rum had even been invented in 1220.
We use the translation of henchman, retainer.
Birbin, you save the day!
I will use slovak/czech translation of Henchmen - Stúpenec/Stoupenec - for this!
Thx again! 8)
Joe
Stoupenec, that sounds like stupid again. How very fitting for those Gregali
I must say: this language thing is definately a problem more players have. I also try to use Dutch as much as possible, but somehow longsword is still a popular word. For some reason English can make word that have a very literal meaning sound good, while translating it to your own language makes it sound dorky.
You Say Good
You Wise
You Killed Soon
Grog, d son of Grog