Triamore: the covenant at Lucien's Folly dicussion

Not really.

Remi is a Nightwalker witch and infernal witch hunter. No trees on his side of the equation.
I thought that Daria (augustan) should be able to design a spell that can do that through the School of the Sylvan Nymphs, but it appears that Vigilio rites cannot make trees sprout: They can

  • Prevent something happening to the warded area (in Hermetic terms, a Rego and Form effect).
  • Bring something to afflict the initiator (a Rego and Form effect).
  • Destroy something in the warded area (a Perdo and Form effect).
  • Preserve something in the warded area (a Creo and Form effect).

So no trees growing. I guess a tree growing immediately might be an effect on "something happening on the bad guy that crosses the wall (Bring something to afflict the initiator), but I prefer not to go overboard here to prevent us being lynched even if we win the battle. tree growing mystically sounds more an effect usable by Yannis than Daria.

What Daria can do (and she will) is put some restrictions on what an attacker can do to the castle or its inhabitants.

Drat... It would have solved the probable problems of building a wall, even if it were wood.

Horses bolting, the doors and walls of triamore being extra- resistant (your ram loses its cohesivebess, and your axes are blunt) and your swords not causing damage are effects that can be implemented though. I still have to check the Augustan rules and work them into the saga.

Okay, based on Covenants and some reading here and there, we can build a stone wall to fully enclose both baileys as long as 1) it is thin (probably around a foot thick), 2) it is no higher than 6 feet tall, 3) does not have a walkway on top. Anything beyond that and a ditch before the walls would need a writ of crenelation.

The wards could then be set on those walls for extra protection.

BTW, I think I figured out why they allowed the trees to both sides of the gatehouse to grow, so it covers the view of the broken/unfinished walls, but shows the fully built gatehouse and tower. It's an illusion.

Hee... I just had a thought... What if Alexandre connected the tops of the existing walls together along the lines of an aqueduct and we just wall up the lowest 6 feet?

Like this

I think medieval courts were less picky than current legal systems, and if this is actually a wall it will raise suspicion, but you cal always suggest it and see if the other characters like it. :slight_smile: We really need that lawyer in our camp :laughing:

I have been looking at some maps, and I think that Bois de Haillot is actually Givet, google-wise:

Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/place/08600+Givet,+França/@50.0616182,5.0969678,9z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c1e9117e62e3f3:0x35e334ba80236b01!8m2!3d50.136386!4d4.824387

(More modern) Area map withe Givet appears south of Namur and Dinant: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d5/Netherlands_1559-1608.jpg

Givet's entry
English: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Givet and the fortress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_of_Charlemont

And in French: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Givet#Une_situation_géographique_particulière and the fortress https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_de_Charlemont

The fortress is from 1555, but we can ingore that :slight_smile: At the time it was the southern tip of Namur in any case.

Ignore the map on p.105. That thing will melt your brain. Use the descriptions and the map on p.85. Essentially Bois de Haillot would be a day's walk north-northwest of Dinant on the western side of the Meuse. In the area bounded by modern-day Anhee and Houx.

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We must not forget the, arguably, greatest resource on building 13th century castles: Guédelon Castle

Aw nuts... Missed the spell that grows a tree to full maturity by 1 magnitude. Although I suppose Yannis could still do that by changing the duration to concentration instead of sun. He'll have to stare at the sapling for a day though.

You need a high concentration to do that. Iirc you can concentrate for 15 minutes per point of Concentration skill.

Alas... It's going to take several days to bring a tree to maturity then.

Let me see if I a D: Ring and T: Circle could work Nope. Won't work since it will still be level 30.

FYI

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Yup. I have to reorder the information, but that is the exact status of Triamore. :slight_smile: I will put that in the Timeline as well to make it clear that this is the status of the manor.

But we all know that when an Emperor dies his laws cease to exist until his successor reasserts them. Or not. or maybe. or who knows?

This requires editing Bois de Haillot's Charter (Triamore p.98 box) and removing there "except that Namur shall have those tolls and fees and customs which his antecessors had in the time of Emperor Conrad II."
As it stands in Triamore, the charter falls short of Imperial Immediacy.

Not quite. At the death of an Emperor, his courts and chancellery cease to exist, and can no longer release Imperial documents. And the succeeding Emperor can repeal his predecessor's charters, especially if those are as weird as the manorial charter for Bois de Haillot in the hands of the Princeps of Triamore.

Free Imperial Knights - the kind of Imperial Immediacy closest to the manorial charter in question - do not even exist in the 12th or 13th century.

For story reasons the immediacy of Bois de Haillot takes into account the right of Namur to extract agricultural taxes. We will put that into the fact that it was a compromise deal between the diverse parties. It is a downgraded form of imperial immediacy, so to speak. The Emperor really cares about the big players, not the small local crap.

the later is a loose reading of the law by the local nobility. Legally it is a piece of BS? For sure, but we want it to fly to have a story hook :wink: That what they do is still legally BS is inconsequential here.

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That's how I read Triamore.

What is a piece of BS? The reservation of payments to Namur is indeed quite understandable, and sets up the saga of Triamore.

Síngle manor domains - like Triamore - with Imperial Immediacy in the 12th or 13th century are historically BS, though. Single manor domains with allodial rights must be very old in the 13th century, but are possible in the German kingdom.

No, I was calling BS the nobles claiming that Triamore's immediacy status died with the Emperor. I guess they are playing fait accompli here. Take posession of the manor and then get the Emperor to come and claim it if he dares. oir that was how they played before.

Yup. If there comes up an Emperor either on their side or without stake in the fate of Triamore, he might repeal the charter. So better be at the Emperor's court in time - and Daria works at that.

Well, she used to play at that. Her stats after applying Aging:

Int +2, Per, Pre and Com +0. Str, Sta and Dex -3. Quickness -4.
Decrepitude: 4 (50)

And I gamed the system as if she was a PC, spreading the Aging points all around and taking care of her key stats. Expect her to be using a cane.