Weal integration breakthrough

Let's assume that Merinita researchers manage to integrate the faerie methods of healing expressed by the Weal power in Hermetic magic. This creates a new set of Hermetic guidelines that allow to heal wounds permanently by greately accelerating healing speed without need for vis or a ritual. I.e. faerie Weal non-ritual guidelines become Hermetic (and ritual ones, too, but since Hermetic rituals require vis anyway, they are kinda useless to Hermetic mages). Would it be a Minor or Major Breakthough ?

I'd imagine Major. The breakthrough not only brings over magic associated with a different realm, it sounds like it would remove the need for Faerie Sympathy. But what a powerful breakthrough, because it would also allow magi to make effective "instant healing" potions and items!

I would say Minor. In fact, I would allow it as implied in the guidelines already. You can mature a person to adulthood overnight using CrCo. Why not "mature" your healing overnight? I actually have (penciled in the margin of my book) written guidelines for advancing healing times. I will look them up and post them later when I am not at work.

Surely it does. Looking at all the other precedents for Hermetic integration of Faerie powers by Merinita Mysteries, Hermetic integration removes need for Faerie Sympathy and substitutes it with a far less restrictive need for a Faerie Magic charm. So I would rule that the precedent holds and mages that use Hermetic Weal may need to craft a charm of the person they heal, but do not need any Faerie Sympathy.

Those potions and items may still need a charm, and more serious wounds need higher-level spells, but basicaly yes. Merinita integrations are surely quite nice, aren't they ? Charms, Arcadian travel, Glamour, Animae, nifty R/D/Ts, and now Weal too.

Hermetic integration of Weal also allows to gain up to +9 bonus to Aging rolls, at the price of a corresponding penalty to Recovery rolls, with a non-Ritual spell.

Weal is power!

Weal powerful?

Salvete, Sodales!

[quote="WandererHermetic integration of Weal also allows to gain up to +9 bonus to Aging rolls, at the price of a corresponding penalty to Recovery rolls, with a non-Ritual spell.[/quote]
Well, this is not the only mystical art that can acchieve such a feat. Just have a look at the Succurro Salutem guidelines of the learned magicians. Even though the example application of these uses an amulet (reslut of seasonal enchanting) this can also be done via chartae (which just take a couple of hours to produce). It might be a bit risky, because the character has to keep a tight schedule, but most mages in ME probably live a calm life. This power can even be extended to groups and bloodlines, so probably there are more really old people in ME than there were in the real-world midages.

Alexios ex Miscellanea

Hmm, in the case we decide this is going to be treated as a Major Breakthrough, how would you call the resulting Hermetic Merinita Mystery Virtue ? Hermetic Weal ? Hermetic Faerie Healing ? Something else ?


Why would it need to be a Mystery Virtue? Assuming you're just accellerating healing rather than, say, "healing" a would whilst allowing normal healing to occur in the background then Hermetic Magic can already do this. You can make things grow faster. You can enhance healing, thus adding to the recovery roll but not improving the time. There's no reason not to be able to do this already, but at higher guideline levels. With, of course, the caveat that you really, really do not want to botch the spell and it'll almost certainly cause warping.

But the issue is, can vanilla Hermetic magic do what Weal does ? Not just giving a strong Aging bonus with a non-ritual sepll, but also accelerating healing speed so much that one or more wounds heal pretty much instantly and permanently, with a non-ritual spell ? Although reasoning about the overall structure of vanilla Hermetic magic tells that this might be already theoretically possible without a breakthrough, no published spell guidelines or example spells do allow this kind of effect explicitly, so the issue was always kinda ambigous to me. And the lack of vis-less insta-healing is the one feature of Hermetic magic I find most insufferable for gameplay and thematic reasons alike.

I would say that simply increasing healing speed is already within the scope of Hermetic magic. It is the other effects of Weal that are outside the limits of vanilla magic IMO.

I don't catch all the problem... (i read Weal yesterday).
All the "reduce time" is already ritual, in Weal guidelines...

Reread it. Serf's Parma, but I'm absolutely sure there are three guidelines, which accelerate healing times, that are not marked as ritual, whereas others do, I checked it several times before creating the thread. IIRC, 20, 25, and 30, which accelerate healing by two, three, and four steps respectively. Only the 15 guideline, which accelerates by one step, is marked as ritual. Guidelines that are ritual are clearly marked as so in their respective paragraphs. Other guidelines at those levels are marked as ritual, the ones above don't.

In my book, all "reduced time" are ritual...

Quoting from RoP: Faerie, p. 129

Underlined spell guidelines are nor ritual, and they may be used to heal single wounds instantly (wounds reduced to less than Light allow an immediate recovery roll, with no worsening possible).

Sorry, Wanderer, I think that's my bad. I'm sure those guidelines are supposed to be Ritual-level effects for faerie wizards. After all, the guideline for just one level is a Ritual, as is the guideline for all wounds.

I would agree that it is ritual as well. Consider: this is an improvement on CrCo healing by 5 levels. Faerie magic should not be better healing than holy magic either. This is pretty much the sort of area that the dominion is best known for. Holy magic (if you have purity and intervention), it is base 35 to heal a light wound without vis, 40 for medium, 45 heavy, 50 for incapacitating.

Ah, well, if that's an errata, this kinda wholly kills the purpose of the whole thread. :cry: :cry: :cry:

Unless the Weal integration breakthrough somehow removes the need for vis in the adaptation of faerie rituals, or changes Weal spells to non-ritual.

Boy, this system tries really hard to enforce the £$%& need for vis in healing magic. :imp: :imp: :imp:

This is my biggest source of annoyance with the ArM magic system.

Oh, well there is always the Hyperborean breakthrough, and the Rune Magic one. But the Weal one looked so cool. £$%& rituals. :cry: :imp: