What are your House Rules?

I would suggest increasing the base level required to make someone sleep rather than interpreting the spell to make its effect be broken easily even though the duration lasts :open_mouth: :confused: Change the guideline instead of changing how magic works.

There are some instant killing spell beyond the sleep. For example changing opponents into babies. What about them? :smiley:

Putting a hole in a boat is "instant kill" against most of the population, and rotting wood is a cheap spell. But that's not the same as an "instant kill" spell.

There are "battle" spells which were made to make opponents disable to act by a single spell. They do it immediately and fully, not later and not partially.
Rotting some wood is not a killing spell, only in some particular case, but "changing people into babies" is far more useful. I hope you will not continue to mention animals and other beings because I will use this baby spell on you though an AC. :smiling_imp:

Since I wrote it up for a (potentially) upcoming game, and since fair is fair and all that, here are the HouseRules that ~I~ tend to invoke in my games, with comments:

  1. Targeting Self & Penetration
    If a mage casts spells on themselves, they have NO Magic Resistance or Parma to worry about penetrating (unless they choose to for some obscure reason). The mage must be THE SOLE TARGET - this implies a Target of Individual, or Group with the Mage alone comprising that Group. Casting with a Target of "Room" won't cut it, even if the mage is alone in that room.

(Practically speaking, a mage has HUGE sympathetic connections to themselves, easily generating multipliers to Penetration in double digits. While BTR that does not guarantee success, I'd rather not slow the game down for this particular headache. ymmv.)

  1. Duration: Rings
    Must be fixed to something truly solid if it's mobile. No cloaks, capes, tattoos, bandanas, horses, saddles, rings, weapons, shoes, coins, etc. Let's say... size +2 or so - small wagon size, bigger than a hand cart. If fixed in place (like, say, on a window pane, or a floor tile), smaller is fine. Rings can be horizontal, or vertical, or on a ceiling - whatever. Rings cannot be in space, and the ring itself cannot be freestanding (i.e., no "hoops", even if fixed*.) Anything larger than a thread lying across the ring "breaks" it - a leaf, a footstep, a staff, the hem of a robe, maybe a decade's worth of dust.

(*This is solely because it's harder to "break" the Ring defined by a freestanding hoop. It's magic, so who knows.)

  1. Creo and Food.
    If Duration > Sun, then the food/water will be absorbed and ~some~ sustenance gained, enough to prevent starvation in the wilderness, or thirst in the desert, etc. This is because it fits in genre, tho' it's against the RAW. Diets of such for extended periods (weeks-months) are not healthy, and will (not "may", but "will"!) cause Warping. (Not so with ritually created foods.)

  2. ReCo
    A mage does NOT need Requisites to teleport with clothing or minor personal gear. They DO need them to teleport if they're holding something large and alien to their person. This is somewhat subjective, but I hope you get the idea. A bottle or staff is fine, a keg or caber is not.

  3. MuCo
    A mage DOES need Requisites to shapechange into something else, especially an animal, unless that animal is going to "wear" their clothing (and that has its own set of problems.) Bjornaer shapeshifting is not a spell, and so Requisites don't help this - clothes do not change when Bjornaers use that ability. Plan accordingly.

  4. Vis & Enchantments
    Vis needs to represent both Technique and Form, at least 1 of each (for enchantments calling for 2 vis or more). Also Requisites, if space allows, but not exceeding the primary Arts. This makes having all the different vis more important, both Te and Fo across the board.

  5. Longevity Rituals
    are extremely personal, and as such the combination of types of Vis and other ingredients should reflect quirks and curiosities about the individual mage. An elemental mage might well require 1 each of the 4 elements, one of Strong Faerie Blood might require a lot of Herbem and some Imagonem, as well as appropriate and rare mystical ingredients. This can be discussed before it comes up, and should be a cooperative, creative, unique final product.

  6. Shield Grogs

Shield grogs are better than regular grogs, that's why they get noticed, and chosen for their critical role. They can have up to +4 in Virtues/Flaws (balanced). Major Virtues/Flaws and Supernatural Abilites require SG approval, and are the exception, not the rule. As per the Guidelines on page 37, no Story Flaws, one (Minor!) Personality flaw max. (And some minor virtues are inappropriate for any grog - Temporal Influence comes immediately to mind as an example that would better befit an NPC, Specialist or Companion-caliber character.)

Most all Grogs start out as "Covenfolk", a free Social Status. Shield Grogs gain the Minor Social Status Virtue "Custos" for free, on top of their max +4 Virtues. When you choose them, you essentially hand that bonus to them on top of everything that made you choose them in the first place - they don't lose an eye from all the excitement. Their lucky day.

+1 Custos (free)
And up to +4 more Virtues, balanced by equal Flaws.

In the following thread YR7 calculated in detail longevity rituals made by specialists can reach lab total of 200.
This very effective ritual and low risk lifestyle (no magical research, no vis learning, no adventure, no experiments) could expand such magi's life to centuries.
Andrew's Ultimate Aging and Twilight Simulation shows 11% of the magi can live more than 200 years, and the oldest ones are over 300.
These calculations didn't even counted the different immortality methods from mysteries.

I think it doesn't suit to the official line when only a few can live more than 200 years and the most dies around the age of 140-150. I like better if the magi die as the game concept suggests and not later as the current rules do.

House rule:
The magi will automatically go into final twilight when they reach warping score of 9 (225 warping points). Base time in twilight at warping score of 8 is a stress die years instead of 7 years for the more uncertainty. This way the oldest members can reach sometimes even the age of 200.

A more permissive solution would be if the final twilight comes as reaching warping score of 10 (275 warping points). But this version would let live magi too long reaching the lucky and cowardly age 250.

Twilight seems to be a suitable end for the magi than decrepitude.
In both cases strong faerie blooded magi have the best chances to live further because they need longevity rituals later.

Here are some house rules :smiley:

  1. You can do everything the rules say you can do, no added restrictions
  2. You can do some extra stuff too, because I like being creative
  3. Wards actually work the way Wards are supposed to

House rules... too many to easily name, but here are some of mine:

Parma Magica is a ReVi spell (based on wards), not an ability.

Finese, Concentration and Penetration are combined into a single ability called Spellcraft.

Artes Liberales and Philosophae add to your lab total.

Formulaic spells can be cast using Ceremonial Magic.

Grugach and Folk Witch magic from Hedge Magic have already been intergrated into Hermetic Theory.

There is no Aegis of the Hearth spell.

... and house rule #1: Where the rules get in the way of the saga, the saga wins.

That's actually rules as written, not a house rule.

We've got a big list.
It's pretty controversial, but some of it is experimental.


I actually dislike House Rules, though I do have a few. Mainly, I allow 40xps a year for Bulk Development (10xp per season), and I have a rule that allows Wards to function properly. Other than that i go mostly by the RAW, leaning in favor of player characters whenever there is anything ambiguous. There are some small ones scattered about, rules for Library books for example (see the "Light of Andorra" PbP thread for a massive collection of tomes)

Parma - why isn't it a spell?

Spellcraft - because the other abilities are correspondingly broad. The days when you had Longsword Attack and Shield Parry as seperate skills are several editions past.

Intergration - because the Order has been dealing with Grugach and Folk Witches since it was founded and sometime in the last few centuries someone got around to it.

Aegis - because with an Aegis the only magical being that can directly threaten a covenant is, by effect, too powerful for the magi of said covenant to deal with. We decided that is too prescriptive, narratively.

Whereas I seem to have a fundamental objection to the idea of RAW. It has been literally decades since I ran a game using only the rules as written, if I even did. :smiley:

It's whatever works best for you and your saga.

Parma - Because it isn't. I'm not sure how clear that can be made.
Let me lay out for you why...
First of all, it isn't completely a part of Hermetic theory.
Second, it can be learned by nonHermetic casters. This is very important.
Third, it cannot readily be applied to people other than yourself. Also very important. Magic items that grant Magic Resistance? Hermetic order would crumble like a wet paper bag. Mighty ReVi magi would outfit their grogs with superior magic resistance and steamroll.

Spellcraft folds together three very different effects into one, not at all like a longsword's attack and defense (though one single weapon skill to learn them all does seem pretty tight.)
Finesse is used for much more than combat, it's used by crafting magi and anyone who wants something to come out looking good. For placing yourself with teleport or other fun things.
Concentration is a great help for people who love circle casting and obviously is used extensively in concentration spells, for holding one spell while casting another or doing things while concentrating.
Penetration is self-explanatory.

Integration - I cannot overestimate how conservative and corrupt magi are. Integration is not strongly encouraged by the Order as a whole and there is strong evidence to suggest that research can and will be sabotaged by jealous magi simply because it makes them look bad, interferes with their own research, or any number of petty reasons. Tremere will probably defy integration of Caileach magic on the grounds that it would allow hidden Diedne dissidents to practice their magicks with impunity. Casters with Flexible Formulaic Magic would oppose the Gruagach integration because it would make them obsolete. Subtle Opening permits you to make apprentices capable of learning a dozen traditions without much effort at all (aside from having to spread Experience of course, and teach the Subtle Opening to whoever does the Opening.) Ritual items, god, just look at the story seeds.
There's a reason this sorta thing is a major part of in-Saga stories.

As for the Aegis of the Hearth, there's ways around it. You can trick a magus into giving you a token. You can sneak in with someone, being carried through the Aegis circumvents the repulsion as noted in the story seed of the Fox of Virtue in RoP: Magic. Not all Magi can manage a powerful Aegis in the first place.
The point of the Aegis is to protect the covenant from all manner of minor problems and to make it difficult for people to scry on their premises or do other shenanigans and is probably the most important single spell you'll ever see.
Also not true that they'll be necessarily too powerful; consider an Aegis 40 and a Might 45 target... collect some sympathetic connections and penetration suddenly becomes a lot easier, assuming you don't have a ritual spell to drop globs of death on it. Or that they'll all be marauders, Ars Magica isn't a combat-oriented game in the firstplace.

Still, it's your Saga. ;D

Funny how that didn't happen in any of the prior editions, when you could make magic items that granted magic resistance. :slight_smile:

Edit: BTW, I think it's very rude to have a thread asking people for their house rules and then tell someone their house rules are wrong.

Well, that's prior editions, only the people who played them would know. ;D
I know that in 5e, Magic Resistance is spectacularly powerful and lots of it could unbalance things pretty dramatically with only the tiniest push.

I was continuing Marko's 'why?' and added 'it's your saga.' I happened to know quite a few reasons to give to that 'why'.
Also, you asked why Parma isn't a spell, so I answered!
Just because I don't like them and I'm critical of them doesn't mean you should take it personally. I'm not insulting you, by any means. Heck, you go could and tear up MY House Rules, posted above, if you liked.

Here's my litmus test: Are you having fun?
If so, then there's nothing fundamentally wrong.

That was someone else's "Why?", not mine.
And, not only could you make Charms against Magic in 4th and earlier editions (and nothing bad happened), in 2nd edition, Parma Magica was a spell. ReVi General.

Oops, Birbin's 'why?'. Consider it corrected. Sorry about that, saw your familiar sword and accidentally conflated it.

That said, sure, I'm sure it worked back then. New edition seems pretty adamant about general magic resistance being fairly unbalancing.

If the Parma is a spell it causes warping.

Aegis: interesting reason.

That "why" was mine. I like to know why a change was made.