As far as I can tell, CrAu can create rain -- and directly, rather than only through clouds that produce rain (I'm referring to the CrAu guidelines in the corebook). So I'm still not convinced by what you are saying (though I do see your point, I believe). Let me ask you: if a magus created some water through non-ritual CrAq, and turned it into a cloud of steam through ReAq (which you can do, see the ReAq guidelines), would you then affect the cloud of steam with Aquam or Auram? If with Auram, would then the steam be non-magical only because the original water has changed Form?
No book handy, but I don't think CrAu can create rain directly. I'd be very surprised. A cloud is Au, but rain is Aq.
In AM, a cloud in the sky is a cloud, not steam. So the steam created via ReAq is water, which (oddly to us) isn't a cloud up in the sky. Things are getting tricky here, and even authors mix in concepts that have no place in 1220ME. For example, there is no such thing as carbon, and no one believes this is why you heat iron, which means that in ME that's not why, yet there it is in Covenants, iirc.
Again, no book handy, but things emitted by a CrX object are real, and I am pretty durn sure this is explained in core. Conservation of mass, momentum, energy do not exist.
Especially when it comes to Imaginem, where the species emitted really are real.
Rain is Auram, unless I'm completely misreading the Auram guidelines (which is possible). Things like "most weather phenomena (clouds, rain, storms etc.) naturally begin in the upper air" and "Create a minor weather phenomenon: a breeze, a mist, a light drizzle" suggest to me that rain is a weather phenomenon and thus created directly through Auram.
Ars magica 5th edition physics are based, more or less, on Aristotle. And Aristotle's Metereology really nails down what is now known as the hydrologic cycle. For example, we read "Now the sun, moving as it does, sets up processes of change and becoming and decay, and by its agency the finest and sweetest water is every day carried up and is dissolved into vapour and rises to the upper region, where it is condensed again by the cold and so returns to the earth.". So, once again, magical clouds "producing" non-magical water to me seems the same as magical ice "exhuding" non-magical water. I wouldn't allow it, but I'll ask you once again (it's not a rethorical question, I'm trying to understand your position better): would you allow it?
Not much experience or anything to add, but just something I happened to be reading so I thought I would paste it in from the core book Pg79:
Good catch! However, it may be worth putting it into context. The text before this sentence says that many non-living things fall under the purview of multiple Elemental forms. However, each has a "basic'' form that is the only one needed for simple creation or destruction of the thing, even though "affecting the aspects and properties of a thing might use the other Arts". We read that "Lava is basically Terram", "Ice is basically Aquam", and "weather phenomena are all basically Auram, including rain storms". Note that clouds are a separate weather phenomenon (see e.g the Auram guidelines) and thus rain storms can't be just "storm clouds that happen to produce rain".
First of all: *doh! Sunnyvale ,Ca
not an ofense intended.
Aknowledged! I allways try to improve ( not allways succeed)
It was dictionary copy/paste :mrgreen:
Well simillar miss uses in other languages, but i am partidary of not loosing word meanings, regardless the language.
I like to read old books, on its original language. In fact the last one from 13th century! Such thing helps you to understand why and how the language evolve. So i try to keep that correspondence. My apologies if you dot agree
Anyway if someone tells tacit, regarding to me; "Remove that Jarhead out of my sight" please do not vaporise me
And if someone ask you "where did you put it?" gods sake, hope you know
joooooass mine neither!!
Well as i see you are from CA did you know who was Fray Juniperus Serra?????? This year is the 300 aniversary of his born!
He was from my island!!!! I encourage ( if you not already know him) to read about him.
Spells that affect rain, that is control or change the water that makes up rain are Aquam.
Spells that effect rain, or rather bring about the weather phenomenon known as rain are Auram.
Their I just accurately used a homophone I always mess up. I know the difference. I just don't usually recognize them when I write, or proof read.
Context is for sissys!
Last night I looked through my core rules....
...and I am totally wrong.
Rain is Auram. (!!!) It says so quite plainly. So CrAu can create rain. And the water disappears when the spell ends.
I have just retroactively failed my Bonisagus gauntlet, and there are a few Quaesitors who want to have a word with me about exactly I have been doing these past few years.....
Quick patch: Experimental breakthough (and/or hithero unknown minor hermetic virtue), combined with Low Perception.
"What, doesn't everyone's magic work like this?"
On a semi related note, how does adding new Ranges, Durations, Targets work in breakthroughs? And how does discovering new form bonuses? I can't make head nor tails of the rulebook sections, but this topic sort of makes it clear.
Are you talking about Shape & Material? That's Alchemy in TMRE.
Yeah, I'm having trouble working out how it applies.
If you have TMRE I'm happy to run through the Vulgar Alchemy rules on discovering new S&M bonuses. You can pm or we can run through questions here!
CJ, I'll poke you on facebook sometime in the week (girlfriend is over for the weekend.)
I just discovered CJ's podcast and wanted to demonstrate my appreciation.
This is a well known grimoire containing spells useful to every covenant. It is commonly gifted to newly Gauntleted magi who are setting out to create a spring covenant. When gifted in this way, the book has an unusual property; within a year of the covenant's founding, Romer's Book becomes an arcane connection to the entire covenant. For this reason, it is kept in secure conditions within the library or in a magi's sanctum.
With only a few exceptions, the spells in Romer's Book are so common that scriptoriums probably already have copies of them in stock and can assemble the book on demand. None are greater than fifth magnitude. The most unusual spell in the Book is an improved version of Chirurgeon's Healing Touch. A bound copy of the book is valued at about 12 pawns of vis. Because recipients of the Book immediately set out on a journey to a distant Tribunal, this grimoire has also earned the name The Book of Roaming.
Aegis of the Hearth (ReVi 25)
Whispers Through the Black Gate (InCo 15)
Demons Eternal Oblivion (PeVi 10)
Wizard's Communion (ReVi 10)
Purification of the Festering Wounds (CrCo 20)
Gather the Essence of the Beast (ReVi 15)
Posing the Silent Question (InMe 20)
Bind Wounds (CrCo 10)
Aura of Rightful Authority (ReMe 20)
Veil of Invisibility (PeIm 20)
Piercing the Magical Veil (InVi 20)
Piercing the Faerie Veil (InVi 20)
Chirurgeon's Healing Ring (CrCo 25)
R: Touch, D: Momentary, T: Circle, Ritual
An improvement on Chirurgeon's Healing Touch, this spell removes a single Medium Wound from every human being within the circle. If the target has no Medium Wounds, it removes a Light Wound instead.
(Base 20, +1 Circle)
The Inexorable Search (InCo 20)
Aura of Ennobled Presence (MuIm 10)
Call to Slumber (ReMe 10)
Pilum of Fire (CrIg 20)
Pit of the Gaping Earth (PeTe 15)
Frosty Breath of the Spoken Lie (InMe 20)
Lifting the Dangling Puppet (ReCo 15)
Thank you! I have not been able to get on the forum for a while owing to a password issue, but all sorted now, and i just wanted to thank you for this!
Ahhh good, I had feared some ill fate had befallen you... :relief:
My sincere thanks to you for all you have done to support this game over the years. Here's hoping you're back on the air soon.
my thanks too