Whch flambeau is flambeauy-ist?

Which of the Flambeau published in fifth ed to date best exemplifies the house?

  • Nameless example flambeau from character creation
  • Philipus Niger
  • Eustace
  • Tolides
  • Hugh
  • Ranulf
  • Darius

0 voters

I've decided to make a poll to appeal to the to appeal to the Marko Markoko in all of you.
The question is which flambeau is the most flambeauish
The contestants should be judged on their attitude, their combat worthiness (for their weight class) and style

Nameless example flambeau
Source: core book
Technique : school of the founder
Chief affiliation: None
Attitude: here are her personality traits: Brave +3, wrathful +3, Thoughtful -2 She's also got wrathful as a minor flaw. so do you judge thoughtless as being very flambeau or not at all flambeau?
Combat worthiness: She's got three spells Pillum of fire, BoaF and Arc of Fiery ribbons that all do more or less the same thing.
Her arts include creo 12 and ignem 12 (+3 for puissant to make it 15). With her major magical focus in flames she can get some reasonable penetration on BoAF and Circle of flame
She has no thought for defense at all, brawl 2 with a specialization in dodge is as good as she's got but she was just an apprentice last week so some slack must be given.
Style: She's hindered here by her lack of age and her short write up.
She smells of smoke, not because of warping or a curse but because she burns so much stuff.
She was throwing level 30 creo ignem spell with a penetration of die roll +9 (or die roll +14 or 19 when using life boost) as an apprentice. That's hard core

Name: Philipus Niger,
Source: Guardians of the Forrest
Technique : He is the very embodiment of the school of Apromor
Chief affiliation: Ash Guild
Attitude: here are his personality traits: Alarmist +3, Condescending +3, Obsessive +2, Cool tempered -1, Cheerful -3 He's also got Ambitious as a minor flaw. Does cheerful -3 mean he's a whiner?
Combat worthiness: Finesse 6, Parma 7 penetration 8
His arts are monstrous but he's 100 years out of apprenticeship so they probably should be. I like his spread though, Perdo is the highest by far (38) followed by Vim at 20 and intellego, corpus, and mentem at 15. the techniques are all at least 10 and the rest of the forms are at around 7. This looks like a good balance of specialization and general competence to me.
He doesn't have a lot of defense in his spell list
His talisman is full of "unraveling the fabric" spells that he could have learned himself for no vis cost and then cast with penetration.
Inflict an incapacitating wound target group range sight that's not the sort of thing that one can take lightly.
His spell list has lots of different ways to destroy things, I can't easily come up with a target that would frustrate him.
His list has some utility spells in it: Aura of rightful authority, leap of homecoming, ward against heat and flames he's not a one trick pony at all.
Style: He's got a basilisk for a familiar! not any basilisk but a disdainful , lazy, indifferent basilisk. let me quote the kick ass combat stats for this lizard: "Sordus is too lazy to enter combat". He'll just kill people by staring at them if he even decides to bother with them at all.
Among his reputations is "Don't mess with this magus" at level 4
Twilight scars include, he appears to grow in size when angry, his shadow sometimes moves on its own, flames dim or extinguish whenever he enters a room. On the other hand we also have his presence sours wine and he winces at noises louder than a normal speaking voice (wimp).
His Talisman is a knife of HUMAN BONE.
the " wizards bridle" invested device is over the top in my opinion
the subtle chain invested device has no penetration, getting rules wrong isn't great style.

Name: Eustace
Source: Tales of Mythic Europe
Technique : A combination of School of Aprimor and School of Ramious
Chief affiliation: The young Squires
Attitude: here are his personality traits: Vain +3 Determined +2 He hunts magical beasts for trophies.
Combat worthiness: his technique is to make his target weak with perdo spells then dispatch it with a blade. In regards to the second part, he's got single weapon 5 (longsword), preternatural growth and shrinking and endurance of the berserker.
He has a perdo corpus total of +33 perdo animal of +28 and spells of several levels for both. he has a penetration score of 3 and a pocket full of perdo vis that he can use to boost penetration
for other targets he has DeO , dreadful bane of the Fae, and pillum of fire. Though he's not going to get worthwhile penetration on pillum of fire.
Style: Blatant gift
Magical animal companion fox
Foreboding figure in black clothes, armor, a black cloak, a big sword and a long drooping black mustache
Hunts creatures of might to collect trophies
He resolved the question of whether flexible formulaic magic can be used to alter target size adjustments. Characters who clarify ambiguous rules get extra style points in my book.

Source: Magi of Hermes
Technique : School of Apromor, school of Boreas, and a goodly amount of darkness suff
Chief affiliation: Hell
Attitude: here are his personality traits: Sinister +2, Temperate +2, Depressed +1, Emotional-1
"He seeks peace and tranquility through the perfection of his art" "He, being a feral hunter rather than a sly plotter has no real desire for power beyond what is necessary to secure his meager existence"
Combat worthiness: His spell list has a good deal of things that hurt the opponent but not so much as to really end a conflict.
Orb of darkness and The Protesting Adversary held still are spells that will end fights and they're only level 20.
Abyssal touch slowly takes out a group
Track by scent and retreat into the shell of shadow are two gems in a collection of utility spells
Style: an imp familiar
he surrounds people's heads in darkness
His tendrils of inky blackness and shadows theme gets points for its consistency showing up throughout the entire spell list.
His talisman wreaths him in shadows at all times

Name: Hugh
Source: Magi of Hermes
Technique : Pure school of Ramius
Chief affiliation: Legion of Mithras
Attitude: here are his personality traits: Recklessly brave +3 Argumentative +2 Belligerent +2
"He is a loyal soldier who does what he is told"
Combat worthiness: While I first though that he had made a mistake by placing spells that require penetration into his talisman, Hugh gets significantly better penetration from these enchantments than he could get from the spells and if he used spells he couldn't simultaneously pound creatures with a big honkin pole axe.
His talisman takes into account the exceptional item rules in city and guild. +3 on attack and damage sans any magic is excellent.
Hugh has more defensive magic than any of the other flambeau
His tactic is to buff up himself and his grogs and beat the snot out of anything. He has DeO and a faerie version of DeO for creatures that aren't subject to physical beat downs
His spell list has very little on it that isn't directly related to winning fights (rise of the feathery body, bind wound ... those two could be considered fighty as well, does he do anything besides win fights?)
Being a four-armed, brawling, giant is even cooler with the optional rules on the box on page 132 of lords of men.
Style: OK it's not a basilisk, but a flying war horse that magically armors itself, that Hugh can't fall off of, and that has additional virtues regarding being tough and kicking things hard is quite the familiar.
Struck on the head so often that he has lost his hearing
Always in the front line
Grogs fear his recklessness and temper
Talisman is a pole axe
He hits an opponent in battle then uses the blood on his axe as an arcane connection. very cold
Not only is the invested device the Tonatris pretty darn impressive but it also has quite possibly the most flambeau piece of artwork Hugh hits a wolf person shattering its shield and sending it flying through a tree
Special circumstance virtue "while in melee combat" that is a quintesential flambeau virtue.

Name: Ranulf
Source: Magi of Hermes
Technique : School of the founder
Chief affiliation: Milites
Attitude: here are his personality traits at gauntlet: Inquisitive +2, Sensitive to insult +2, Belligerent +1, Brave +1 Loquacious -1 Here are his personality traits 60 years past gauntlet Inquisitive +2, Brave +2 Loquacious -1
At gauntlet Ranulf is eager to burn his way through any opponent, as he ages he cares less and less about combat. The older Ranulf is occasionally called upon by the Q's but only because they want him not because he wants to be the guy with the combat spells.
He gave an object that was a permanent Ac to himself to Castra solis, He's willing to be there for the house in a time of need.
Combat worthiness: His spell list contains only one spell that is primarily designed to hurt things: pillum of fire(OK two if you count boreal flames).
He can get off really large penetration scores, magi resistance is something that he can typically deal with outside of extreme cases.
If something can't burn then he has a chance to freeze it but if it doesn't burn or freeze then he's out of luck (perhaps an older Ranulf could use transformation of fire and petite phoenix to drop a boulder or tree on something).
He can keep arcane connections for a while and knows opening the intangible tunnel, that tactic is not very milites-like however.
the best bunch of utility spells of any of the magi here
Some OK defense
Style: His talisman is a staff, boring but classic.
Laboratory is full of floating flames
He bivouacs in a house made out of fire
he wears a ball of abysmal flame as a coat
he creates 12 foot tall servants of fire
He changes inconvenient parts of walls into flaming birds that that has flutter away to less inconvenient places .
You need to cross a river ? ignem spell, You need to round up the cattle? ignem spell, you need to send a message across the country? ignem spell, You need to dig a tunnel? ignem spell, etc.
If one shoots an arrow at Ranulf and it will be incinerated in flight.

Darius I had forgotten about until just before I posted the poll. I haven't got the energy at the moment to detail his flambeau-ness

Um.... no. Just... no. 8)

I would say that the question is wrong. :slight_smile:

For a start, the poll should be multiple option, not a closed thing. Flambeaus are more broad than just destroying stuff. IMO all the above have strong Flambeau elements. More than stats, I care about the philosophy behind the character. personality traits are paramount here. To me flambeau are knights, ranging from the hotheaded and flamboyant to the cold and calculating. Philipus Niger would be the one with the worst, because of his personality traits that do not match the school of apromor. Imo those do not reflect "thinking perdo" very closely.

The 2 basic school are quite well done. The rest are just variants.

Do you recall what passages led you to the opinion that school of Apromor should be thinking perdo rather than just perdo with no reference to how well the magus thinks? (because I didn't get that feeling)

I find it hard to classify the school of Ramius as a variant of the initial two.

It might be legacy knowledge. In the descriptions of the Arts, there was a passage stating that your strongest arts tended to color your perception of the world. A high perdo makes you perceive everything in a stage towards nothingness and decrepitude. The cheerful -3 goes well there, but I do not see him as hot tempered.

The school of ramius embodies the fighting knight spirit. I had seen school of ramius flambeaus well before 15 years before it existed. I should know: I played one and a fellow gamer (jordi) another. In his case it was a Jerbiton, though.

For me (YMMV a lot) Flambeaus are just guys that search a worthy opponent and try to beast it. Those tend to be PHYSICAL opponents. The objective might be an ideal (end injustice, or kick the backside of the moors out of Iberia), but it tends to center around physical combat.

Yes, you can argue that this approaches the Tytalus, but I just find that the tytalus idea is a botched house. For me tytalians search SUPREMACY. That is quite a different idea. They do not need to destroy an enemy, but to beast that they are just better. IMS tytalus do not tend to be such teenage jerks either, so ghey keep the infighting INSIDE their house*

Some tytalus do the same as the flambeaus, but the flambeaus tend to be less idealistic than the tytalians in their approach to thing. Knight errants and fighters for (whatever) more than breakers of a limit or showing ascendancy over (say) a prince of hell or a fellow tytalus.

*Not in the current saga though, since we are explicitly playing the hyppian conflict

Ok there are now three votes for the example from the core book. I find it surprising that theis character gets any votes at all. Even more surprising seeing as Ranulf is on the list.

Is being wrathful and thoughtless an important flambeau characteristic?

Does the fact that Ranulf mellows out with age make the difference?

Is the example character just a blank template that doesn't really have much to to it therefore it's a more pure choice than Ranulf who has factors that don't meld well with what you see as the most Flambeau?

(Perhaps you're overthinking it. Isn't it just as possible that, given posters with a like mindset to Flambeaux, they're merely selecting the first target of opportunity they see?)

Aw, no Pitsdim? I guess he's not technically a magus any more, but still...

They are also the two who follow the school of the Founder. Etymologically Flambeau comes from flames, the Founder favored Flamed over all else, how can they not be the most Flambeauy ?

Yes, I know, it's looking at appearance rather than true character. But it's such a flamboyant appearance !

The Founder is the flmbeauiest flambeau. The 3rd edition version so much treasured and HOTLY defended by an archmagus on this forum with the initials MM.

The question isn't why would someone choose either core the book character or Ranulf, The question is why would anyone choose the corebook ignem character when they could choose Ranulf instead who is more competent in a fight (even right out of apprenticeship), has more style, and has a better attitude?

Ball of Abysmal Flame?

That seems a possible reason, but is it really more flambeau than a set of five multicast Pillums of Fire? I'm still not getting it.

Yes. I mean, I hadn't read Ranulf in the original, but he sounds like a Falmbeau magus that got mellow and all philosophical with age, and never got to even learn the signature Flambeau spell (the spear and the ball are both necessary and serve different purposes IMHO). The quintessential Flambeau does indeed need to be rash and warlike, for me. Ranulf scores very well on style and capability, but fails utterly in mindset and direction of magical growth. Nameless Template does is still young, but for his (her?) age does admirably and has the right attitude.

And the rest just aren't fire magi. They are not even in the contest.

That answer makes things clear to me.

I apologize for having forgotten Pitsdim, ( I may not have included him if I had remembered him but I certainly should have remembered him).

You also missed off Releganta from RoP:TI, though I figure she wouldn't get many votes anyway :wink: (At least I hope not!)

Painful ones? 8)


Aw, it's okay. He doesn't hold a grudge. :slight_smile:

That is because the mythic european equivalent of Erik has already been converted into a pile of ashes for the slight. :mrgreen:

*Reminds fondly how one of his players SLAPPED pitsdim last time we ran calebais. And he even LIVED to tell the tale... *