Wizardry, apprentices and training

Core rules state on p.164 in relation to the advancement type 'training'.

The spprentice may only be taught an ability which the master is using to earn a living over the whole season.

Now I realise this is mainly intended for craftsmen hence the description. I am wondering however, a magus taking an entire season of lab work, does this constitute sufficient grounds for the apprentice to claim training XP, or does he have to struggle on with simple exposure.

Similarly if the magus is writing up lab texts or preparing a text, would this also be sufficient grounds for claiming training XP in profession: scribe.

Just wondered how other people worked it into their sagas, we have in the past, permitted such advancement.

Magus ... pass me the quill boy... [SLAP]...

Apprentice ... thinks to himself at least I get more XP this way

I've always just given exposure

This is the point where you farm out your apprentice to one of your sodales for a some gift of equal value or alternately, if your apprentice is sufficiently advanced you put him or her to work in your lab extracting vis for you.

Your apprentice is of too much use to you to serve as a writing assistant.

(Yet if he was serving as such an assistant I'd give him exposure)

Same here.

Likewise - and the season-by-season process still tends to create a much "larger" apprentice than the standard CharGen system - so unless you really want/need a monster, I'd avoid pumping it up.

Hey that's an actual reason for your opinion rather than just stating the way you've done it in the past. I should have thought of that for my post.

I've interpreted the training part as the apprentice not contributing to your work. So if you want to give your apprentice training instead of exposure, you don't get a bonus to your lab total.

Books are usually a better way to teach your apprentice if you don't need him in the lab. (or hire him to other magi etc. you nasty Erik Tyrrell; farming your apprentice :imp:)

We have trained 2 apprentices IMS. Sadly, none came up to finish their apprenticeships: one dided at the hands of a nasty demon (after checking and slapping him for a few rounds to the amusement of all) and the other ending up in a failed saga. In both cases theyb wrre multi.-trained during their first years, though: not many magi would spend much time TEACHING the apprentice to read or speak latin, but would subcontract those activities to the librarian or other such teacher, maybe even hiring a tracher to give some formal eduucation on such matters. The master would oversee the education, but not do it himself.

Magi teach magic, but not latin. At least IMS. Some magi might get involved in all the teaching stages, but not many.



While it may not be pretty, i think one would have to take it on a case by case basis, or for example you could choose between giving exposure XP and getting the bonus from the assistance, or skip the bonus but give training XP(though i think the latter is both a little too harsh and not quite realistic as well).

I think the relevant differentiation would/should be this:

Basically, if the "master" devotes a little time to make sure the apprentice is getting everything right, that actually excludes exposure from the possible sources of XP.
You could for example make a success roll for the apprentice and treat a failed roll as distractions for the master.

I think im actually starting to lean towards giving either Training or lowend Practise(3-5 maybe) XP from several situations like this. It makes more sense i think(ok so it messes up game mechanics, who cares :smiling_imp: ) .

I try to include my reasoning, even in my "Me too!" posts, even if the diff is a bit forced at times. This time, not so much.

I understand what you mean Erik, in saying apprentices are too useful to waste as writing assistants, and from a 'power-gamer's' perspective that would be utterly true. The only issue I have it that rather presumes the purpose of having an apprentice is to train a boosted started mage.

Most of my fellow gamers over the years have used their apprentices as roleplay devices. In some cases quite deliberately producing an underpowered apprentice, as that reflected their own personality traits.

the second issue is that it pre-supposes your apprentice has actually received a substantial amount of training already if he can distill his own Vis etc.

From a less 'gamer-mechanical' perspective, why would I, as a magus, be working on my manuscript alone when I have a boy in training in my care who is perfectly capable of doing some of the work for me? the fact that this has no impact on the season's achievement doesnt matter, it has an impact on the quality of life of the master.

In our saga someone was thinking to start a little gifted boy and asked who would be willing to teach him. So I made a calculation for my magus. The question is what compensation will I get for the wasted 15 seasons. I don't want obscure political advantages and I don't care about +4-6 bonuses for lab work.

The result is I would teach him only if he has the personal vis virtue. This would mean about 57 vis because he would get some education before opening his arts.
Plus I very like Erik's farming idea because it brings some reason why magi teach apprentices. I decided I would aid my apprentice with an agreement. If he extract 100 vis for me he will be allowed to spend the remaining 10-12 seasons freely. Or even more if he will be a Cr or Vi specialist.
I also was thinking to teach him Latin by someone else.

The player is the alpha SG and he didn't accepted my offer despite noone else offered training. He didn't said but I think he found the personal vis requirement exaggerated. :wink: I didn't speak him even about farming. :smiling_imp:

I think 57+90=147 vis is a nice compensation. But only because my magus need a lot of vis to his plans. Otherwise he would be totally ignorant teaching apprentices because in 5th edition vis is no really needed for learning.

An apprentice is also usable writing tractatus after they learned a bit. I know it is ridiculous magi learn from their apprentices but this edition supports the idea.

Ask your parenhts what investment calculations they made when they decided to have you. or ask yourself if you have children or are planning on having them.

Children are ruinous from an investment point of view. They offer compensation not in the area of hard numbers, but on the area of personal achievement and satisfaction.

Quite a difference here.

IMO anj apprentice is not a slave for most magi, but an offspring: he is what will be kept in the world when you enter final twilight. You magical offispring. Your tradition. Your family.


I'm very happy to get know all of the magi think on their apprentices as children or such. I will consider to drop this character. Bah!

Just to let you know in the modern part of the world there are people who do make calculations how many children they want or if they want any. And there are people who get supports having children therefore they think on their children as they bring money.
Not me. I'm not planning to reproduce myself.

NOT all wizards think of apprentices as children, but a fair amount of them would do that IMO. Social pressure and expectations also play a part here. An apprentice-less wizard might not be seen as fit material for archemageship, for example.



My Bonisagus magus thinks of it as the superior way to uphold the lineage and tradition.
Besides, what good are your ideas if yuo cannot truly pass them on to somebody else? And an apprentice makes for good debate and can give usefull comments during all kinds of magic work and study. (hence the lab bonus)

I got a bit scared though, when my apprentice (who has a fiery breath as mystical ability) told about her dream:
She was flying over a village, burning all the roofs with her fiery breath.
But the houses just wouldn't burn down properly, since it started to rain.
Then she got really angry and all of a sudden the rain changed into a washing inferno.

Now she askes me to teach her to create a rain of fire!!! Our next covenant expert will probably be trained in psychology and theology, and should be excellent with pupils.