Wizard's Boost and Great Wizard's Boost


This might need a slight errata.

Wizard's Boost's guideline says:
Significantly change a spell of less than or equal to the level + 1 magnitude of the Vim spell. [...] A change in power of plus or minus one magnitude is a significant change, as is a change of target, if the target was possible for the original spell.

But the spell says:
You cast this spell as another spell of a level less than this one is cast. The effect of the other spell increases 5 levels in power, but not past the level of the Wizard’s Boost . The effects of the extra 5 levels of power are for the storyguide to determine. A Wizard’s Boost may never affect a single spell more than once.

This seems to suggest that the guideline is meant to say that the level of the affected spell is one magnitude lower than the Wizard's boost.

If someone wanted to do a Great Wizard's Boost, that changes the spell by 2 magnitudes, this is what the guideline says:
Totally change a spell of less than or equal to half the (level + 1 magnitude) of the Vim spell. (...) The Vim spell affects the structure of the spell, not the things that the spell targets. A change in power of up to two magnitudes is a total change. Any greater change requires either Creo or Perdo to create more magical energy or destroy some.

Does this mean that the a MuVi30, Great Wizard's Boost can affect a spell up to level 10? (30/2 = spell level + 1 mag)

The ruling we're considering for it is:
GWB20 can affect level 5, improve to level 15
GWB30 can affect level 10, improve to level 20
GWB40 can affect level 15, improve to level 25
GWB50 can affect level 20, improve to level 30

I won't answer, since @Red-Shadow-Claws and I argue elsewhere, but a related question which adds to the confusion.

In the canon Wizard's Boost (WB) the resulting effect level (not only the original spell level) is capped by the level of WB. I cannot find a basis for this constraint in the guidelines. Going by the guidelines alone, I would have thought that WB20 could affect a spell of level 20 and boost it to L25. Is that an omission in the guidelines?


You need to remember that the spell level in the guideline actually refers to the base effect, not the actual final level of the spell. Considering a lvl 30 GWB with Range: Touch, it's base effect is lvl 25. 25+1 mag = 30. Halved, 15.
This is, of course, on purpose. It means that any spell using the guideline for WB at R:Touch will affect a spell up to it's own level, and any spell using the one for GWB at R:Touch will affect spells up to half it's level.
Things get messy when you up to R:Voice, for example.
A lvl 30, R:Voice GWB has a base of 20, and affects a spell up to lvl 25/2 (base +1 mag, halved).

The point raised by @loke also bothers me.

Wizard's Boost is an outdated mess.
It does not actually (as far as I can tell) follow the current MuVi guidelines.


I'd recommend (as I have in the past) to remove it entirely, or re-write to actually be explicit about what it does.
@David_Chart has declined to do either on earlier occasion.

1 Like

A couple points:

  1. It is important to limit modified levels with the MuVi spells or you easily end up with non-ritual rituals, spells that should be rituals but are not due to application of MuVi.

  2. It is not contradictory to have the maximum level affect limited by the spell as well as the maximum modified level limited by the spell to the same value. If you switch this MuVi to Voice, then those will match; but it happens this is designed at Touch.

That doesn't Jive with Wizard's Boost. It says it can affect a spell up to 1 Magnitude Less than Wizard's Boost. So a Wizard's Boost 20 can only affect a level 15 spell.

Wizard's Boost can affect a spell of lower level than itself.
So a level 20 Wizard's Boost can affect up to a level 19 spell.

The guideline used says it can change a spell of (base level) + 1 magnitude or lower.
For a level 20 Wizard's Boost the base level is 15. 15 + 1 magnitude is level 20 or lower.

No contradiction so far between the spell description and the guideline used. The spell is possibly a bit more restrictive than the guideline requires it to be, but that is allowed and fine.

This much is clear. The big question is if a new spell could be invented, at say level 20, working exactly like Wizard's Boost except that it can affect a level 20 spell and boost it to level 25. The RAW guideline appears to allow it, but @callen argues, correctly AFAICS, that this is ill advised, allowing non-ritual ritual powers.

The further question is what happens when we use the next guideline, allowing a two-magnitude boost; let's call it the Greater Wizard's Boost (GWB). Suppose we make it level 20. By the guideline it can affect level 10, and generalising WB, it can affect level 9.

What would be the maximum modified level of effect of GWB20? If @callen 's argument is the only one to add further limit, level 20 is OK. If we try to generalise WB, one may end up capping it at 10.

On this whole 20 v. 19 thing, that was a mathematical error throughout the core book's guidelines when switching from math to English to write the rules. It was one of the first things to ever receive errata:

Muto, Perdo, and Rego Vim Guidelines (pp. 159, 160, 161): In the General guidelines, replace each occurrence of "less than" with "less than or equal to".

The errata may not have covered every single spell where this showed up. But the intention is clear when you see how many items in the errata say this.

Is this worth nitpicking on based on limiting the level? It would be better to add to the MuVi guidelines something like "to boost a spell to Year or Boundary the MuVi spell also needs to be a ritual".

I mean, boosting duration from Month to Year already needs to have D:Year anyway. A GWB to boost the effect of a lvl 45 or 50 spell needs to be lvl 90/100 (also ritual).

Going by the guideline, a proper WB could to boost an effect from lvl 50 to 55, but this isn't a trivial investment, and casting this combination requires a concentration roll. And a magus can make charged devices or enchant items with effects above lvl 50, so it's not like they are a problem by themselves.

TBH, as long as we forbid non-ritual MuVi to achieve Ritual (Year, Boundary or major) effects things should be fine.

Yes, a general rule like that would probably stop the problem, and then we wouldn't need to worry about raising the level of a spell. I would simply say a spell cannot become a ritual if it wasn't one unless the MuVi is a ritual.

This is incorrect. As per the errata on Muto Vim: "This means that a Muto Vim spell must have a duration at least as long as the casting of the target spell, but need not last for as long as the spell itself. For normally-cast formulaic spells, a Momentary Duration is sufficient, but if the casting time is longer for any reason, the Muto Vim spell must also have a longer Duration; Sun is sufficient for any practical Ritual."

I hope no one needs to cast an effect for an entire year.

I think he’s referencing the last line of Wizard’s Boost.

That last phrase solves the problem but for the L50 limit, but it does not require a year duration, only a ritual. Duration could be momentary if the target spell is a regular one.

Ah, I see what you mean. Yeah, that does look like a guideline that's tucked into the description of an example spell instead of being where it should be.

I am disinclined to change Wizard's Boost, because it has been around for ever. At least not in errata.

One problem with tidying this up is that the level of Wizard's Boost includes a magnitude for range, so a general guideline would have to be something like "no higher than the base level + 1 magnitude". And then we have to decide how it applies to spells that multiply or divide the level of the MuVi spell.

What do people think would be the best fix to the guidelines (ignoring any consequences for Wizard's Boost for the moment)?

My problem is that the guideline isn't very clear, to me. It doesn't have the clause that the spell to be affected cannot go higher than it's own level. We only see it in the spells derived from it.
And how does it affect a Greater Wizard's Boost, level 10? Supposedly, it can affect a level 5 spell, and boost it to level 15!
And how does it affect the original spell's penetration?

Also, what happens if you change the Range of a spell, to reduce an enemy spell from Voice to Personal? is the spell still working on the magus casting it? does it need to penetrate his MR? does it fail, because the original target isn't within range?

My suggestion would be to add a sentence to the general guidelines for MuVi, to say that a MuVi spell can never increase the effective level of the target spell above its own base level. I am not sure how best to phrase it though.

This change will

  1. explain that the cap on resulting level in Wizard's Boost is necessary.
  2. prevent any ritual level effect arising from non-ritual spells.
  3. hopefully explain what the cap on the resulting level should be for the two-magnitude boost spells.

It will not answer all the other questions that @Red-Shadow-Claws is raising in his last post; maybe they deserve their own thread?

You'd need to broaden your statement to actually rule out many other ways to get Rituals outside of them having high levels.

True. The last clause in the description of WB should have been part of the guidelines. I thought it already was.

This does not allow spontaneous or formulaic spells to reach Year duration or Boundary Target, unless the Wizard’s Boost is a ritual.