1228 Grand Tribunal events, cases and happenings

Salve,

I'm coming up on the Grand Tribunal of 1228 in my current game and I'm keen to see what are some more canon events, as well as likely events cases and happenings that takes place.

In my Chronology project I currently only have this from canon:

1228 Seventeenth Grand Tribunal:
House Tremere appeals the Theban Tribunal of 1207’s non-conviction of the disbanded League of Advisors for interference with mundanes. Should this appeal be successful, it could have important consequences for the autonomy of Tribunals in general and the Theban polity in particular.

I'm pretty sure the Lotharingian split will be huge item, but I'd like to crowdsource a few more ideas and what you have used in your games (both canon and non-canon very welcome, but I'd like to understand if it's canon from somewhere or not).

Also, is there a good writeup anywhere on running a Grand Tribunal?

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According to Faith & Flame p32, there may be a Pyrenean led group seceeding from Provencal and petition to declare a new tribunal all together (interesting to have two of those cases in the same.

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If you haven't seen them, there are few past topics about this:

Topics for the Grand Tribunal 1228 - Games Discussion / Ars Magica - Atlas Games RPG Forum (atlas-games.com)

list of potential topics for 1228 Grand Tribunal - Games Discussion / Ars Magica - Atlas Games RPG Forum (atlas-games.com)

Freeform Scenario: Grand Tribunal 1228 (in Germany) - Games Discussion / Ars Magica - Atlas Games RPG Forum (atlas-games.com)

Issues at Grand Tribunals? - Games Discussion / Ars Magica - Atlas Games RPG Forum (atlas-games.com)

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Thank you! Interestingly, I did a search before I posted, but must not have used the right search items because I did not find these. Weird. Anyway seem to be some goodies there :slight_smile:

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Here are my prep notes for the 1228 Rhine Tribunal:

I decided not to have the Grand Tribunal be something for the players to participate in but rather an event that they would influence via what happens at the Rhine one.

But big ideas that can happen at the Grand Tribunal of 1228 is the formation of a Lotharingian Tribunal at the expense of the Rhine.

Tremere machinations against house Bonisagus (lonked to the above)

A big push towards the "4th estate" overarching plot.

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@OriginalMadman, I used the term "Grand Tribunal 1228" in this forum's search bar on the top right instead of google.

@Jank that's pretty cool! I'll have to share some for my game's tribunal of 1129, when it happens, eventually! :wink:

@Heaven_s_Thunder_Ham sorry to necro this, but did you ever run a GT? What were some of the interesting topics? Our group is doing this next session.

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I've got one coming up too and would love some ideas!

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For the Crusade Game I run, the Grand Tribunal happened in 1096 - not sure if that’s intentional on part of the designers, but that was peak first Crusade Mania. The next one will be 1129, which I have many notes for, and the PC was making plans on how to eventually influence it in his favor. The pace of the game is such that it’s still 1101 and the PC as Aubert of Damascus is still in the process of invading Egypt. On the PC’s docket is:

(1) The legal argument that the Levant Tribunal gets to raise 3 issues, as the Tribunal in my alternate timeline was constituted in the late 800’s, and that it is not technically a “new” Tribunal but defunct due to lack of Quorum, and was never legally dissolved by a previous Grand Tribunal ruling. Therefore the representatives can bring up 2 issues, and then bring up the final issue partitioning the Levant Tribunal into three regions.

(2) The Creation of many new Levant Tribunals, specifically the Tribunal of Syria (Cilicia, Duchy of Antioch, County of Edessa, Principality of Aleppo), the Tribunal of Phoenicia (From Tripoli to Tyre along the coast, and into Damascus, then everything east of the river Jordan Selkhad, Bosra) (3) The Tribunal of Jerusalem (from just south of Tyre to Ascalon, and generally everything west of the River Jordan) The argument will be that due to the lawless chaos of the region and that long travel times to a single location… and that a multi-front WAR is going on that a decentralized Tribunal network is better to coordinate defenses of the Order.

The PC is also fairly political about this. He is dealing with Archmagus Quaesitor Dreddicus (Judge Dredd) and wants to get him assigned to another Tribunal, or maybe Egypt. And the PC has a female Quaesitor who is in love with him but is too old and out of touch to realize this or acknowledge it, and is not impartial in the PC’s favor. The PC wants her as the Phoenician Tribunal’s Presiding Quaesitor. Another issue is that the PC is aware of the Unholy Consult’s influence, as they have settled into a covenant in Homs, and the PC does not want to be in the same Tribunal as them.

(3) PC will also make the argument that New Tribunals get a 3 votes at the grand tribunal as waiting 33 years for them to get a vote when they’ve been in existence for 30 years is unreasonable.

(4) Upgrading the Order of Hermes’ institutional capability of interacting with other Non-Hermetic Orders. As declaring War or even peace talks and other diplomacy on behalf of the order require 33 year turn around time is insane. Note that in this Campaign, they are dealing with:

  • Order of the Amazons attacking their most ancient enemy: The Sons of Bonisagus and freeing the eternal rape of the subjugated Daughters of Trianoma. The PC convinced a senior Archmagus Quaesitor to convene an emergency Grand Tribunal, and the result was a collective yawn. The PC was not impressed.

  • The PC engineering a Wizard’s council that declared War on the Order of Solomon for diabolism.

  • In the adventures that last ran in May this year, the PC unfortunately awoke 3 of the ancient Roman Orders of Magi: (a) Ordo Jupiter (b) Ordo Pluto {yes, the same as Guernicus the founder’s tradition} and (c) Ordo Mars. These Roman Orders are in collective agreement that the Ordo Mercury was the weak little brother red-headed step child of the Roman Orders. As the Order of Hermes doesn’t even claim to be Roman anymore… They are permitting ONE Covenant in all of Egypt and are claiming it as their immediate territory, with plans to expand further in Africa. They are also in negotiations with The PC as The Prince of Damascus who will be the likely secular leader of Egypt.

(5) - Apprentice Rights, I used some of the material from the Sorcerer's’ Slave, where the PC made friends with Andros, who was a terminal apprentice of 30+ years. As a result, the PC wants to reform how apprentices are treated in the Order.

(6) A vote on War (Yes/No) with the Order of Amazons

(7) A vote on War (Yes/No) with the Order of Solomon.

Part of the plan was the use of the rules in Transforming Mythic Europe to write Polemics, Diatribes and Apologia to prosecute and gain favor for these issues at the Grand Tribunal of 1128. Interestingly in my consulting of Ars 5e, 4e, and 3e Canon, there seems to almost remarkably “nothing” happening that Tribunal so it is pretty much a blank slate.

On that note, given all the years I’ve played… I have never run a memorable Grand Tribunal of 1228. Well maybe I shouldn’t say “neveRRR” but it would have been hand wavy thing I did as a teenager 22+ years ago. I have run Grand Tribunals for my Pre-800’s game, which was interesting, as the PC’s were able to leverage votes to change rulings. Memorably they changed the “Join or Die” into “Join, Die, OR be enslaved!” As the PC’s wanted to making foreign magi their property to extract non-hermetic secrets from to sell access to new Hermetic Magic discoveries to the rest of the Order.

Other issues I’m canonically aware of for 1129:

(1) Border of the Normandy and Provencal upheld.

(2) Tribunal of the East became the Tribunal of the Levant (not applicable)

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I was wondering about how to run a Grand Tribunal too, given how many issues there might be to debate and how many magi might be attending. If PCs are present and able to vote on evey motion it could be a pretty complex thing to handle.

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Other potential Tribunals are Africa, the Nile, and Thule (Scandinavia).

There are probably other matters to discuss, though.

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In my saga I only have the regular Tribunals super public, but the GTs are Dunremar and the 3 delegates from each tribunal only (one per “point “ being brought to the GT). Especially since the local tribunal happen close in time, I just don't see much gain in running a massive GT full of mages that the players will never hear of again.

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I vaguely recall an NPC trying to raise awareness and votes for an aquatic Tribunal of the Mediterranean or some such.

The name Edmund the White comes to mind. Though was it 4th or 5th Ed?

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I think it’s both. There’s the Mythic Seas book in 4e which I think first floats the idea, and then in Through the Aegis, there’s a Verdituis covenant on a ship floating (get it now?) the same idea.

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I think you're combining different things. The Theban book has Favornius (I think), a floating covenant of ships built by a Verditius, but with no ambitions to set up a new tribunal. TtA has a Tytalus-founded covenant of (mundane) ships, and their leader, Carlos Magnus (again, I think) wants to set up a “Tribunal of the Northern Seas”.

I don't know who Edmund the White is - maybe he is in 4th edition, which I haven't read.

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It is a stretch, but could you be confounding with Wilhelm
Weiss of Fengheld from GOTF? He was part of the faction trying to set up the Lotharingian
Tribunal.

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